Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98535 | ||
I do take all information into heart from outside sources, but I then ask the source dirrectly... As you can see, some where in the history of teaching about the Mormons, you were given flawed information... by either someone who didn't know better, didn't care about the truth, or someone who whole heartedly wanted to warp your view as well as my view... I do believe the Mormons are a good example of a people who are commonly misrepresented... but they are not the only ones and do not get sole credit... I have a close friend who is Cathlic, he questions many aspects of his Church soley based on the Bible and his readings, he checks many translations to determine the "Average" of what the Bible is saying... his newest venture is the subject of the "Trinity", he told me, "There is no Biblical support for it, or against it." He refures back the the Nicene Creed and other such historical times... I also have a good friend who goes to a Bethal Church, she's been there 15 years and told me, "The what what?" when I asked her views of the "Trinity", I then explained the 3 in 1, and 1 in 3... she replied, "No, they're sepperate and that doesn't make any sense." I am not now questioning a doctrine which many have believe for many years and continue to believe... but my point is how many "Christians" truly believe the very own doctrine of the Church they attend? I would reffer back to Christ saying, "Those who do not believe shall be damned." If some teachings have no Biblical support or condemnation, and they defy logic. How are we as men supposed to learn the Divinity of Doctrine? Aswell, Gene Robinson, you quoted him... "Just simply to say that it goes against tradition and the teaching of the church and Scriptures does not necessarily make it wrong." No I will disect this mans statement and give you his "Truth" and "Lie"... "Just simply to say that it goes against tradition and the teaching of the church..." He has a very valid point when making this statement, since there are so many traditions and teachings that change from Church to Church, who's to say he is incorrect in the part of his statement, he is not... But... "...and Scriptures does not necessarily make it wrong." Here he is absolutly incorrect, the Scriptures are the word of God and his law, to go against God's law is a sin, and sin is wrong... He ultimatly shows that he is wise to the ways of the world, but ignorant in the ways of the Lord... I also believe the people who voted this, openly defiant to God, man as a Bishop will share his judgement... and I find there are many people this way when I ask them, some pastors, some congregations, some invididuals... which is why religion is not a hard thing to believe, but to FIND I feel I must be Baptized into a Church, there is no other way of salvation, to simple say I believe is not enough for me, Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark was quoting the Savior, so I am quoting the Savior... I note that many will say baptism is not necessary, but Jesus said, "Believe and be baptized." John 3:5 "...Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." this testifies further to me that I must be baptized... but I cannot accept a sectarian baptism... "There is one Church, one Baptism, and one God." I do not remember the refferance... if there is one Church, than only that one Church has proper authority to give the one Baptism, under the dirrection of the one God... This is another subject I cannot defy, the Bible says so, and I believe the Bible More insight from your understaning is always appriciated, Joe |
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2 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | justme | 98631 | ||
Dachande: I think it only fair to you to get information from the actual source on Mormonism, so I will give you quotes and the exact source, so it will not be me giving you my words, but the orignal source. I have rarely spent this much time dialoguing about this, but you have shown respect and been interested enough and I think you deserve the real truth. So here goes joe. The universe is governed by a head god and his council. "the head God called together the Gods and sat in a grand council to bring forth the world....In the begining, the head Gods called a council of the gods; and they came together and concorted a plan to create the world and people it" (Joseph Smith, TEACHINGS OF THE PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH,pp.348-49 God has goddess wives. "This doctrine that there is a Mother in Heaven was affirmed in all plainness by the First Presidency of the Church" ( Bruce R. McComkie, Morman Droctrine, p, 516). God is limited by a physical body. " The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's" (Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22) "If God possess a form, that form is of necessity of definate propprtions, and therefore of limited extention and space. It is impossible for Him to occupy at one time more than one space of such limits" (James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, p, 43). There are many gods: "In the begining, the head council of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the woorld and people it....In all when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods" (Joseph Smith, Founder and First Prophet, History of the Church, vol.6,pp.43). Jesus and Satan are brothers. " The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God-Lucifer. This spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind" (Milton R. Hunter, First Council of Seventy, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15). Mary was not a virgin. " Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers....Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; He was born in the same personal. real, and lireral sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father" (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp.547,742). Jesus was married. "Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee. We sat it was Jesus who was married. to be brought into relation wwhereby he could see his seed" (orlson Hyde, Apostle, Journal of Disclourses, vol.2,p.82). The Bible is incomplete and has serious translation errors, "Ignorant translators, careless transcribers, or designing and corrupt priests have committed many errors--many plain and precious things were deleted, in conseqquence of which error and falsehood poured into the various churches. One of the great heresis of modern Christendom is the unfounded assumption that the Bible contains all of the insspired teachings now extant among men" (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine,pp.82,83). Except for the LDS Church, all churches are false. "I was ansswered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the personage who addressed me said that all theeir creeds were an abomination in his sight; and those professors were all corrupt" (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith 2:19). "This Church is the only true aand living church upon the face of the whole earth" (Doctrine and Covenants, 1:30). "There is no salvation outside of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints" (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol.6,p.670). Joseph Smith was a holy prophet. " I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Niether Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I. The fellowers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the LatterDay Saints never ran away from me yet" (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol.6,pp.408-09). Joe, I can give more quotes from the Mormon Churches own material if you like. I hope you will closely consider that there is a significant discripency in what Mormons say they believe and what is actually what the truth really is. Why not look up what I have quoted, and that way you too will be sure I have quoted it rightly. I f you would rather we can dialogue on any of the points or move on to a new subject. I would never intentialy misslead you. My hope is this will help you and any others who read this. All these quotes come from MORMONISM What You Need To Know, Quick Referrence Guide by Ed Decker Published by Harvest House Publishers, Eugene Organ, 97402 1977 ISBN 1-56507-511-0 by permission. I pray this might help you. Peace. justme |
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3 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98681 | ||
Justme, thank you for the references... I have actually seen most of these on my own before, but what confuses me is that some of the bold statements made, saying they don't believe Christ is the Redeemer and was resurected, is not supported by any of these writtings, they all support the Redeemer and Resurection... I think the funniest thing is when I try and explain my job, I'm a Combat Engineer in the US Army, to a civilian who has no understanding of the Military Languague... I compare this to that of the religions of the world... especially the LDS Church... if I've never been explained to, their definition of a certain word, I would assume that they are flangelant and completely wrong... What does this phrase mean to you...? "I'm an E-1, before I can be promoted I need X amount of P-Points, X amount of time in service, I must attend PLDC, pass my APFT, go through and intview at a battalion promotion board, and be slotted in my Company for promotion, and be recomended by my chain of command." Sure, you may understand some of these, like Promotion, Interview, Recomended... but what is an APFT? or PLDC? and P-Points? if you've never learned about the Army you cannot understand what this means... I feel the same is to religious members to people not in their sect/denomination/cult what ever you so may place on them... The Mormon definition of Salvation is equal the Army definition of a Promotion... now as a Private E-1 it is Impossible to be promoted from a Private... Promotions take place when you become a Non Commissioned Office, NCO, you may become a Speacialist, E-4, but that is an Advancement, not a promotion, it takes all the same aspects of a Promotion but teachnically is not and does not have all of the same expectations and responcibilities Now, my point, the Mormon definition of Salvation is equal to what the rest of the world calls Sanctification... and every church I've studied believes Sanctification can only be obtained through their Church... so where are the Mormons so wrong in their understanding of salvation? They are not, everyone else is either in the Navy, Marines, AirForce, or are civilians and just doesn't completely understand their Lingo which is a cause for many of these type of accusations... Justme, I do not understand your point of these referances since what I read in the Bible is not compromised by these quotes... please explain... I eargerly await your reply, Joe |
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4 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 98726 | ||
You wrote: "Now, my point, the Mormon definition of Salvation is equal to what the rest of the world calls Sanctification... and every church I've studied believes Sanctification can only be obtained through their Church... so where are the Mormons so wrong in their understanding of salvation?" Because biblically, sanctification (our being made righteous in practice) is subsequent to justification (being pardoned and declared righteous because of Christ's obedience and sacrifice for His people). I am going to heaven because of what Jesus did for me, not because of what I did for myself. My best actions are imperfectly good ones, and our infinitely holy God accepts nothing less than perfect obedience; that is, obedience like Christ provided on my behalf. Therefore, the LDS version of salvation is like sanctification, but according to the Bible our progressive sanctification is the EVIDENCE and FRUIT of being saved, not the BASIS of me being saved. --Joe! |
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5 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98823 | ||
Joe you make a good point. What I was trying to get to is this, the LDS understanding of Salvation is much greater than the general Christian understanding... And to get into what the general Christian world view of Heaven by LDS terms, is to have have faith. So when talking about an equally worth of a destination the LDS and the general Christians all agree... Faith alone will get you there... But the LDS Church believes in Exaltation, which is what they generically call Salvation... See my point on understnading each others terminology? We may use the same words as another, but the meanings can be very diferent... It's like American English and British English, for the most part we can understand each other, but I'd be lost in some areas unless I learned their terminology... Joe |
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6 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 98832 | ||
"So when talking about an equally worth of a destination the LDS and the general Christians all agree... Faith alone will get you there..." Actually, Mormons teach that almost everyone will be going to one of the three heavens. Other than apostate Mormons and "anti's" like me, hell (the "outer darkness") is pretty empty. I am aware of the way cults like the LDS manipulate Christian terminology to mean something different. Most aberrant groups have their own jargon, "code" vocabulary, or altered definitions of theological terms that lexically isolates their members from having meaningful theological conversations outside the group. Defining terms is indeed important. The LDS has defined them incorrectly. --Joe! |
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7 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 99021 | ||
"Other than apostate Mormons and "anti's" like me, hell (the "outer darkness") is pretty empty." I believe you were miss informed... Not necisarrily "Apostate" Mormons... if someone never had a true testimony, they would not be held in the same reguard, and as far as "Anti's"... unless you're so Anti as to go out and murder on behalf of this, that is not the case... only those who would classify as the "Son of Perdition" would go to outer darkness... Anti Mormons are not the osn of perdition... Joe |
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8 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 99027 | ||
In any case, Mormon hell is pretty empty. Not the way Jesus described it at all. --Joe! |
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