Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Who determines our destiny? | NT general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 98411 | ||
In a way Gene, we are almost saying the same thing. I as well do not believe that God forced Herod or any of the others to do what they did. Each one made his own choice to particpate in the crucifixtion of Christ. They were free to follow that which their unregenerate hearts desired. The fact that they were slaves to sin and being sons of the devil, does not excuse their wicked deed. Where we still may disagree is on whether fallen man is capable (absent the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration) of having a desire that would be pleasing to God. I say he (fallen man) cannot. Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, This leads to the controversial issue regarding the real state of the unregenerate. Knowing that they are spiritually dead makes it impossible for them to have faith in God. This topic is not popular on this forum among many who have debated it time and again over several years. But in order for you to know where I'm coming from, it seems best if you realize that I believe the doctrines of grace (TULIP). I belive them for one reason and one reason only: They agree with Scripture. John |
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2 | Who determines our destiny? | NT general Archive 1 | GeneZ | 98482 | ||
John... You assumed something wrong about what I believe. You said.... "Where we still may disagree is on whether fallen man is capable (absent the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration) of having a desire that would be pleasing to God. I say he (fallen man) cannot." There is nothing in our flesh that can please God. Nothing. You said... "I believe them for one reason and one reason only: They agree with Scripture." They do not agree with Scripture. I am neither Arminian, nor TULIP. I do agree with most of the acrostic, but Beza (not Calvin) came up with that notion. The key is one of knowing what grace does. And, that the soul is not part of the flesh. I wish not to argue, but when someone makes a closed statement like you have ( " They agree with Scripture.") Then I see a preconceived wall erected prejudicially against any reasoning that may show the error to your dogma. I will discuss as long as you do not become rigid with me. If not, I will simply drop the subject with you. Are you willing to be shown that you can be wrong? That things are not as simple and black and white as you like them to be? You would be an exception to the rule if you agreed on my terms. It seems that a certain mind set has a natural affinity for Calvinism. I have found it, so far, to be a rigid one. To explain what I have to give, in order to show you how I see grace works in salvation, it will require avoiding being sidetracked by the usual cliches and conditioned responses. You must be willing to first hear me out and let me finish. Ask questions to clarify what I specifically said, if you wish. But, please do not have us wander off and ask me to explain (at that point) what a certain passage that you have come to accept and seems to contradict free will of man in salvation, means to me at that time. Let me first complete my understanding with you. When I finish, then you can give me such questions if you wish. If you can agree to that, then I will explain myself as to why Calvinism and Arminianism are both wrong. Almost everyone knows Calvinism and Arminianism. Both make no sense to the other. Both are attracted to by believers with an natural affinity for such reasoning. I am here to reveal something that neither reveal. Remember, you can question what I am saying and ask for clarification about what I am specifically speaking on. But, I will refuse at that point to get sidetracked into refuting TULIP dogma directly. For, I believe what I have to say will clear it up as I go along. Agree? Or, do we just move on? Grace and peace, Gene |
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3 | Who determines our destiny? | NT general Archive 1 | Hank | 98486 | ||
GenZ - While Brother John is sleeping -- are you sleeping, Brother John? :-) -- please pardon my intrusion. It will be brief. I hear you loud and clear; your arguments seem cogent enough and your invitation harmless enough and fair enough. But as a long-time non-TULIP user of this forum, I and many of my colleagues can attest to the futility of any effort to take away from our very small group of resident Calvinists any petal of their beloved TULIP. Believe me, it has been tried. See entries under Calvinism in the archives by using Search. It's far less challenging to assign yourself the project of talking an apple into the idea of becoming an orange. These kinds of debates have a way of running on and on without really going anywhere or solving anything. Perhaps the better plan would be to engage in debate with John Reformed via private e-mail. Another Calvinist/Arminian debate will meet with stiff resistance by a large number of veteran forum users, I assure you. But at the same time, if you have a revelation based on Scripture that has not been voiced by either the Calvinist or Arminian camp, and would shed light on both, I'm sure we'd all be pleased to see a post on it. I notice that you're a relative newcomer to these parts and so bid you most welcome. In Christ, --Hank | ||||||
4 | Who determines our destiny? | NT general Archive 1 | GeneZ | 98490 | ||
Hank... I may be new here, but I am not new to the debating of such issues. And. let's be fair. I have yet to see someone show a Calvinist a viable alternative to certain things they accept coldly. Some try to reason the nature of God with them, but fail to show how we can be both totally depraved and able to be given faith by grace. That is why I set the criterion before I say what I have to say. If he refuses to agree, or begins to go back on his word, I will simply cut it short like I said I would. I do know how the mindset that is attracted to TULIP can be. On the other hand, he may be willing to accept my terms. To allow me a complete hearing of what I have to say before he challenges with his accepted dogma. If not, maybe you and I can take this up after he decides not to? I really believe that the Lord has blessed my thinking in this area, in a way that both took me by surprise and gave me deep inner contentment. Some things are so simple after they are revealed to you, but are impossible to see without grace in its power showing the way... to freedom. Nice to have met you, Hank. Grace and peace, Gene |
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