Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | justme | 98415 | ||
Dachande: This is Part 2. In your note I do have a concern I would like to run by you. I wonder if you realy have given serious inqurie into the LDS Church and it's beliefs? I do not want to presume wrongly, however by your note I do not think as deeply as you need to. I have known and delt with Dr. James White, an expert in LDS and other cults. Infact we went to University together, he was by far the most intelligent, serious student I have ever ment. His web site is aomin.org and he has authored several widely acclaimed books. I encourage you to visit and gleam at your will, it will widen your scope of understanding if the LDS Church. Joe, they do indeed have ANTI- material, you might just mever see it, but I have. This is NOT a Christian Church! LDS is a cult, just a the same as JW's etc. You need to see this for your self and then you can speak from personal experience. Also equip.org is another good sourse of information on this as well. For me I believe that according th Jesus in Matthew chapters 24, and 25, I doubt we will ever see the Chruch united under His or Biblical authority, in willingness, until Jesus return. I see that Jesus is saying this world will get worse and worse. Do you see where I come from from in Matthew 24 and 25 to arrive at this thinking? Why not reread thies chapters and continue our dialogue some more? I do not understand what happened before on the forum with you and others, and it is not an issue I care to go into. As long as we share mutuial respect with Christian kindness, we shall continue our dialogue, if that's ok with you. I will let you know if I do not agre with respect and kindness, and if I can no longer do that I will say i need to bow out, and I expect the same from you also. Sounds reasonable does it not? I do incourage you to use Scripture if you are able to, when making a strong statement as this is a Bible Study Forum, ok? Well peace to you Joe. justme |
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2 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98471 | ||
Justme, I would like to obtain some of these Mormon Anit-Literatuare of which you speak... To clarify, I give inquire into ALL Churches who profess Christ as their Savior and teach it thus from the Bible... I have spent time with "Mormons", and have learned that is just a modern slang, with the 7th Day Advin, the Cathlics, Southern Baptists, Gerneral Baptists, Protostents, shortly with the JW's, Christian Science, and also my research into the learnings of the Christian Scholars of Modern and Eearly Church times... And from everything I have learned form and about all of these religions is that the LDS Church is branded non Christian and Cultists because of their stand on the "Trinity"... I have also noticed that the Cathlic Church believes the "Trinity" but they are commonly titled, just as much as the Mormons to be Cultists... The Southern Baptists told me that Mormons are not Christians soley on the "Trinity", yet Cathlic are not Christians and they believe the "Trinity"... I just find trouble with all of these labels when most all profess Christ as there Lord and Savior and take upon his name to be titled... "Christian" But if the Cathlics and Mormons profess Christ, how are they not Christian? It seems to me that the modern labeling of a Cult is "They're different from us" being who ever labels them... Justme, what is the true meaning of a Cult? as to your undertand I will look into what Dr. White has to say, but I will share more reluctance with learning from someone who, more or less, preaches an ANTI theme... I've read many ANTI theme literature and have inquired the Church that is being attacked, and the followers in that Church state "they do not believe as such"... You also say the JW's are a Cult... by todays standards maybe... but would the Jews be as well? Their doctrine was once correct... I just find trouble how most all of these Church's teach from the Bible and have Truths in them... but many fall short from Biblical Teachings... and if the Bible is the word of God and Christ established His Church, why do we seek to Church's of men for Gods word? And Justme, I do use my Bible, every day, and I do pray about any and all doctrine I encounter... but I also do not speculate the truth as it comes from Anti Material, I ask them dirrectly Oh, the other post, it wasn't pretty... but there wasn't very many rational posts by any side... I do believe there is here and would love to continue this discusion... Just forgive my grammer and spelling, I am dyslexic and the fact that I will question everything and everyone on information, and I will pray and ask of God to be directed to the truth, James1:5 tells me thus is appropriate... Thanks again and I wait for your reply Joe |
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3 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | justme | 98513 | ||
Dachande: I appreciate your honesty and sharing your thoughts and feelings. The LDS Church believes Lucifer and Jesus Christ were brothers! They believe Jesus was the forerunner of Joseph Smith, and Joseph Smith was the true redeemer! They do not believe Jesus Christ rose again in the flesh, nor do they believe Jesus was born of the virgin Mary. They do NOT accept the Bible as the true Holy living Word od God. For Mormans the Book or Morman is holy. Keep in mind that the Book of Morman is subject to constant change, and has been a number of times. In the Book of Morman penned by Joseph Smith, he said polygamy was to be followed. This suggestion caused havic in his day, but polygamy is practiced in several states today which is illegal and immoral to say the very least! Joe, always the main thing to look for in finding out if a person is involved in a cult, is to ask who Jesus was, and about their belief in the divinity of Jesus. Then ask if Jesus physically rose from the grave. These are key points. Then if you get this far ask how one gets to heaven, and is there any other way than by beibg regenerated by Jesus Christ and by Jesus alone, by our faith in Him? A cult will constantly disagree in these matters of these questions. I encourage you not to be so side tracked by "anti statements" made by anyone, but by who do they say Jesus is. That Joe, is the ultimate question we all MUST answer. Would you agree? I think at this point I will waite for your response to move on from this point, ok Joe? Peace. justme |
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4 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98533 | ||
Justme, thank you the insight You are correct about being side tracked by ANTI statements, and I do not believe you are making ANTI Mormon statements, but just to touch upon some of the Mormon beliefs that I have researched into... I do not say I am an expert of the Mormon doctrine, and I do not make false accusations of your knowledge... just that it is somewhat flawed... I will touch lightly on the topics of which you spoke... The Jesus/Lucifer brother theory is derived from God the Father being the Father of all, and Lucifer was a fallen angel, and Christ the Son of God... so inefect there is case for argument, and the idea would make us ALL brothers and sisters to not only Christ, but the devil as well... when I have asked about this they have replied, "Yes that would be correct." I've never even heard of Joseph Smith being the redeemer, from any Mormon, it has always been "Christ is my redeemer.", Joseph Smith is how ever held in hgih reguard as a prophet, but no more than we would esteme Peter, James, or John... From my understanding, one thing that sets aside the LDS Church as a cult is their unacceptance of the "Trinity" That in, they believe the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are 3 seperate persons who are eternally bound in one purpose... That the Father has a body flesh, and the Son has a body of flesh, but the Holy Ghost does not have a body of flesh... if they believe the Son has a body of flesh, he obviously took his body up again in the ressurection... As far as Mary, they have never told me anything other wise than she being a virgin... Every Mormon I've talked to seems very saddened when I bring up that I've heard they don't believe the Bible... their responce, "The Bible IS the word of the living God, we have the Old Testament, and the New Testament." and then I ask about the Book of Mormon... their responce, "The Book of Mormon is the keystone of our religion, and a man can be brought closer to God by reading it more than any other book, but it is the Book of Mormon, not the Bible, and we do use the Bible." They would normally go on to explain that the Book of Mormon is not to be added into the Bible as a book, but that it is in its own, Another Testament of Jesus Christ... The case of the Book of Mormon changing and being written by Joseph Smith... this I do not know for a surity and will claim nothing... other than they blieve it was Translated by an ancient record which was later taken up into Heaven for preservation... Note, to all whom may read this, please to not turn this into a stomping grounds on the Mormon Church and their doctrine, this is a conversation between Justme and myself, if you wish to inclut your opinions, please feel free, but this is not a debate over Mormonism... Justme, you do have key questions that I will continue to ask... My point in stating these things I know about the LDS Church are to explain my reasoning for avoiding any anti material, but also, being skeptical in asking those not of a certain religion about a certain religion... Too long again... Continued... |
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5 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | EdB | 98588 | ||
Joe The Mormon god Eliohim was a man from another planet that lived a good life and was given planet earth to be god of. He and his sealed wife (celestial) then proceeded to make spirit babies. Then they came flesh (Adam and Eve) and had human babies into which these spirit babies inhabited. Along the way Eliohim asked his first two spirit baby sons Jesus and Satan how he should deal with humans, 1 force them to worship him or 2 give them free choice. Jesus said free choice and Satan said force. Jesus won and Satan rebelled taking with him 1/3 of the spirit babies who now become demons. Mormons use to teach these were the blacks until the US Government threatened to cancel their tax exemption they then changed it. Earth got messed up and Eliohim decided that Jesus was needed to straighten it out so he Eliohim became man had sex with Mary and the baby that was conceived, Jesus inhabited. Jesus came to earth teaching salvation in that any that would believe him would be saved, was crucified and arose and went back to Eliohim. Mormons believe as Eliohim once was (man) as they are and as Eliohim is (god) they can become. In their temple ceremony is a rite of sealing their earthly wife so that when they both die they will have a celestial wife then they too can be given planets and make spirit babies and be gods of those planets. Now that is a long way from just not believing in the Trinity. The Mormon god is a created being certainly not the God of the Bible. The Mormon Jesus is also a created being certainly not the Jesus of John 1:1. Yes they do use the Bible however only the KJV and only a 1611 version which few of us could even read today. They also believe the Bible contains errors which the Book of Mormon corrects. EdB |
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6 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98678 | ||
EdB, interesting... From these statements they are, to your understanding, the truthfullness of what Mormons believe... and I am someone who is seaking the fullness of truth as the Bible directs it... I am rather learned in the Mormon understanding of their religion, beacuase I ask them... Justme brought up some doctrine views... so I asked them, and they corrected the errors in understanding... Your post I have also inquired, now keep in mind, I am studying many religions abroad and do not rely one one single members understanding of their doctrine... and from my own learning, I have learned that not all things preached can be understood by our translations... I'll touch first of the word "Eloheim" The word "Eloheim" is derived form the word "Eloi", meaning God. And by adding the word "heim", it renders it Gods. So it is hard to take everything said about another as truth... if you translate the Hebrew into English with an understanding of the Hebrew definition, things change... which is why I will question every religion preaching from the Bible... To mearly say earth got messed up and the Father had to fix it goes against everything they believe... I've heard the "Plan of Salvation" quite a few times... which in short states... this is my rendition, but is completely acreate to their beliefs, how do I know... I simply asked... "Before the world existed we lived in the Heavenly Courts above with our Heavenly Father, and He saw fit that we should take up bodies and become exalted, even as He, that we might have the fullness of joy that our Father has. "Our Heavenly Father called a council in Heaven to determine the plan in which we would inhearit our bodies and salvation. And two arose and spoke saying 'Send me', for one was Heavenly Fathers First Begotten in the Spirit and the other was the Son of the Morning. And the First Begotten said, 'Father send me, and let the glory be thine' and the Son of the Morning said, 'Father send me, and not one soul will be lost, and give me thine glory' "The Father in His infinate wisdom chose the first and chastised the second, and the second became angry and pursuaded many to follow him, and he was cast out of the presence of the Father and became the devil, and his followers his angels, never to be born into the Fathers plan, for they were the Sons of Perdition." Now, to compare what I've said do not ask self proclaimed experts, for obviously they are not, but ask many diferant Mormons, they will kindly answer any questions... they will say I am correct... Now how does that correct the errors of your understanding... First, you do have some truths, but to say earth got messed up undermines their whole religion and God in His infinate wisdom... if God knows all things, so He will establish a means prior to, to insure His desires are met... This is equal to the Mormon belief... And the 1/3 host of Heaven being the blacks, is not true... if the 1/3 host of Heaven cannot be born into the plan how can they be the blacks who were and still being born? Also, the Doctrine of becoming God, as I've read is also slightly missunderstood... I'll define... they teach to like Christ, perfect, as God who is perfect... Now, if they teach we are commanded to be Perfect like God, to be perfect, one must posses the same attributes, knowledge, and capabilites/powers to be Perfect... thus to be perfect like God you must posses His charactoristics... His Godly charactoristics... They teach He is still God The Father and there is no greater... but since He is God and perfect, we must be perfect, thus being God's... To obtain the status of Godhood is not necassarily to God... and Genesis does acknowledge the plurality of "Gods" Gen1:26 "And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness... etc..." Gen3:5 "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as GODS(plural), knowing good and evil." Gen3:22 "And the Lord God said, Behold the man is become as ONE(singular) of US(plural), to know good and evil... etc..." |
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7 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 98698 | ||
Greetings Dachande! I'm not nearly as proficient in Hebrew as I am in Greek, but let me assure you my friend that you have been misled by the Mormons. The ending of 'elohim' does not make the word 'plural' as in gods. The ending is a matter of form, not function. There are, in Hebrew, certain words which have a 'dual' ending, but these words are not plural. Further, the doctrine of the Trinity does not teach that there are multiple gods. It teaches that there is only One God who exists eternally in three distinct Persons or Personalities. Scripture is very clear that there is no other god besides God the Father. Consider the following passages: Try these verses concerning whether there is more than one God: Deut. 4:35 - "You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other." 1 Kg. 18:60 - "so that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God and that there is no other." Is. 45:5 - "I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me," Is. 46:9 - "Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me." There are more, but these should suffice! So, since there is only one God according to God, how can anyone else become a god? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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8 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98721 | ||
The Hebrew was not so from Mormons, but a correction is note worthy and no problem to take, thank you... You're not seeing what I'm saying though... remember, this is not a debate over Mormon doctrine... so lets leave them alone and focus soley on the Bible... There are many passages that state there is only one God yes... but where in the Bible does it state this is the "Trinity" and the Godhead is no where explained as that of the "Trinity" in the Nicene Creed... that is the problem with the doctrine, yes, the creeds states it and gives a detailed definition, but the Bible does not teach the doctine of the Trinity, the creeds do... do you see my delema? I base my beliefs on the Bible, and the Trinity is not in the Bible, so how can it be upheld as concrete? Explain the Apostle Steven's vision then... And back to the origanal topic... Since when in the Bible was it taught that there are to be no more Apostles or Prophets, it doesn't... When doctrines are set out to be the absolute, how can they be when they are not in Bible? I know you will quote those same verses, but then I quote Acts 7:55-56... but if the Bible does not contradict itself, how can Christ stand on the right hand of the Father if they are the same... "Being" Or Christs prayer in John 17, where He prays that we may be one in Him, as He is one in the Father, that we all might be one with the Father... or John 20:17 where Christ ackowledges sebing subject to the Father, "...To my God, and your God." This argument can be faught til we're both blue in the face with supporting scripture for each side, which I'm not trying to do... So if we can do this, why should we not have Apostles and Prophets to settle these petty doctrinal issues? As far as I've read, God doesn't like confusion, which is why He had Prophets and Apostles Am I making any logical sense? Joe |
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9 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 98723 | ||
You wrote: "There are many passages that state there is only one God yes... but where in the Bible does it state this is the "Trinity" and the Godhead is no where explained as that of the "Trinity" in the Nicene Creed" The Trinity is the understanding and synthesis of separate teachings, all of which are found in Scripture: 1. There is one God. 2. The Father is considered to be God. 3. The Son, Jesus Christ, is considered to be God. 4. The Holy Spirit is referred to as "God." 5. The Father is not the Son, nor is He the Holy Spirit. 6. The Son and the Holy Spirit are distinct persons. 7. In many, many places in the New Testament the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are placed in conjunction with each other on equally authoritative footing (most notably in Christian baptism). If all of those statements are demonstrated in the Bible, what other formulation could the church have codified but the Trinity? Therefore, the Trinity is taught in Scripture; it just isn't taught in one single, isolated verse. Like other biblical doctrines, it requires a little work on the part of God's people to grasp it. --Joe! |
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