Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 98259 | ||
Hank, " Holding imperatively onto the doctrine of the regenerative power of water to effect man's salvation almost invariably goes hand in hand with the doctrine of works salvation," I cannot understand why when discussion baptismal regenration, its opponents alway leave the Holy Spirit out of the equation as if the proponents of baptismal regeneration do that, which they do not. it is not the water but the holy Spirit working in and through the water that effects the grace of baptism as John 3:5 says "by water AND the Holy Spirit." To always refer to "water" and leave out the Holy Spirit is to errect a straw man. Was is the water of the Jordan that cleansed Naaman of leprosy or God working in and through the water? In both cases God has chosen to work through water . Emmaus |
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2 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 98261 | ||
Greetings Emmaus! Three quick points if I may my friend! 1) We have discussed John 3:5 before, so I won't go through all that again. Just let it suffice to say that it is by no means clear that John 3:5 is referring to baptism at all. There are many other possiblities which make more contextual sense. 2) Secondly, John 3:5 does not say 'by water'. It says 'from' or 'out of' water. Verse 6 uses the same prepostion in regards to that which is 'from' flesh. 3) As far as Naaman is concerned, I would say neither. God healed. The method was only incidental! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 98273 | ||
Tim, "The method was only incidental!" If you read the story of Naaman again you will find that he thought the method (the waters of the Jordan) was incidental too and at first refused because there were grander rivers in his own country. God felt differently. Take a look! Emmaus |
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4 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 98283 | ||
Greetings Emmaus! It wasn't incidental in the sense that God expected Naaman to obey Him, but the water had nothing to due with the actual healing. Do you really believe that God needed the water? Or, that God couldn't have healed as a result of any act of obedience? The water had no magic properties! :-) Nor, was it the means of healing! In that sense, it was only incidental. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 98291 | ||
Tim, It is not a matter of God "needing" the water any more than God "needed" to incarnate in order to save us. God "needs" nothing. It is a matter of God choosing to use the water just as he chose to take on flesh. God sanctifies his creation by using it to sancyify us. It is God who sanctifies, but he chooses to work through his creation to do so. It is not a matter of "either or" but rather both, the essential being God, but God choosing to work through his creation. That makes it not incidental but rather sacramental. Sacraments are not magic they are the works of God. God is not a magician, but He is a miracle worker. No God, no grace! But if God tells you to go to the water to receive his grace, you had better obey, as Naaman did upon reflection and sound advise The alternative was to remain and die a leper. In the sacraments God sanctifies his people and his creation. He santifies the water and the one being baptised, the bread and wine and the one who receives the Eucharist, the oil of annointing and the one being annointed. In our worship our very movements and gestures are sanctified so that all we do and all we use is orienterd toward the Lord; standing, sitting, kneeling, bowing, hands raised in prayer, the laying on of hands, the very sound of our voices raised in the song and prayer of worship, so that all things visible and invisble, spiritual and physical are renewed in Christ. Emmaus |
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6 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Morant61 | 98292 | ||
Greetings Emmaus! Part of the problem in our differing views is simply a difference in words. To me, something that 'is not needed' is not necessary! :-) Part of the problem is our differing views concerning sacraments. The word 'sacrament' is not used in Scripture, nor is anything said to be a 'means' of grace. If God had said that we must 'go to the water to receive his grace', I would agree with you! :-) But, as I have posted before, God only says believe and be saved. But, this is old ground! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 98293 | ||
Tim, A closing note. Sacrament comes from the latin sacramentum which is translated "oath" as in Coveneant oath. As I recall God did make a few promises, oaths, sacraments. In the sacraments we see God's Covenant oaths fulfilled in action. Good night. Emmaus |
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