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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why does Jesus come as a thief? | 2 Pet 3:10 | kalos | 188378 | ||
The Great Day of Their Wrath -- When? Revelation 6:12, 16-17 (ESV) When he opened the sixth seal…[they were] calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” In 1Thessalonians 5:9 we are told, “God has not appointed us to wrath…” But when does God begin to pour out his wrath? After the opening of the sixth seal. Revelation 6:12-17 (ESV) 12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. 14 The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” Grace to you, Kalos |
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2 | Why does Jesus come as a thief? | 2 Pet 3:10 | ebrain | 188501 | ||
Hi Kalos. The following post which I submitted to another Bible Study web site, and which includes a reference to "wrath", might be of interest to you. May the Lord bless you abundantly, and keep you safe. Edwin. Dear Ken. The extracts bellow are taken from two of your posts, and I would like to comment on them as follow "I'm not sure what you are trying to say with this. I understand 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 to be referring to Jesus second advent which occurs at the end of the tribulation period, and therefore at the beginning of the 1000 year reign". "We are living in the age of grace now, but I don't know of any scripture that shows that the age of grace ends before Jesus' return at the end of the tribulation period. Revelation 20:4-6 which I briefly discussed in previous posts shows that the Church is in the tribulation period. We know that people are getting saved during the tribulation period and that at least some of them are giving their lives for their faith. We see this in the great multitude that came out of "great tribulation" in Revelation 7:9-17 and in the resurrection of believers that occurs at Jesus' second advent in Revelation 20:4-6". If the "Rapture", was, "at the end of the tribulation period", as you say, then it would be possible to know the day on which it was to occur, whereas Jesus said "no one knows the day", which means it must be the first event, and therefore come before the start of the tribulation, and not at the end of it.. Furthermore, the word, "Wrath", is found 13 times in the book of the Revelation, and at least 10 of these refer to the "wrath of God".. How can you possibly maintain that Christians will be in the tribulation in the light of the following verses?. 1Th 1:10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come. 1Th 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. Verses containing the word "wrath". Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast [it] into the great winepress of the wrath of God. Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever. Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Every blessing. pabrain |
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3 | Why does Jesus come as a thief? | 2 Pet 3:10 | kalos | 188508 | ||
No post-tribulation rapture. Ebrain: Thanks for your reply. I just want to point out that in my previous post I was not saying that the rapture came at the end of the tribulation. Nor was I denying that God did not appoint his children to wrath. Instead I was saying that God's wrath is not poured out until after the opening of the sixth seal (Rev. 6:12-17). Since God has not appointed us to wrath and since God's wrath is poured out after the opening of the sixth seal, then the rapture must take place some time between the opening of the sixth and seventh seals. Also to say that the rapture occurs some time between the opening of the sixth and seventh seals is not to set a date. We know how long the tribulation period (Daniel's seventieth week) is, but we don't know how long after the beginning of the tribulation the sixth seal is opened. We do not know the date of the opening of the sixth seal. I just wanted to clarify that for anyone who is reading this thread. Grace to you, Kalos |
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4 | Why does Jesus come as a thief? | 2 Pet 3:10 | ebrain | 188510 | ||
Thank you Kalos for your post. I have no problem with it, and am in complete agreement with the sentiments you express. You will note that what I had to say, was a copy of a post I sent to another site, namely http://www.biblestudy.com/biblestudy/ and was not intended as a reply to yours, but merely to say something more about "wrath". It is comforting to have the input of another "Pre-Trib", believer. Ken Smith has posted extensively on this other site, you might be interested to read what he has had to say, and perhaps even make a contribution yourself. Every blessing. Edwin. |
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5 | Why does Jesus come as a thief? | 2 Pet 3:10 | kalos | 188512 | ||
Edwin, For the record, I believe in the Prewrath rapture as defined below. Prewrath vs. Pretrib Rapture Pretribulationalism 'Pretribulationists teach that the return of Christ has been imminent since the days of the early church and that the church will be raptured sometime before the seventieth week begins. Although they have no Scripture that in so many words teaches it, they teach that there are no signs and the rapture could take place at any moment. The seventieth week of Daniel is therefore considered to be a seven-year period of God's judgmental "tribulation" (hence the term pretribulation). This position generally views the seventieth week as the day of the Lord's wrath from which the church is excluded.' Prewrath 'The Prewrath position teaches that the true church will be raptured when the great tribulation by Antichrist, inspired by Satan, is cut short by God's day-of-the-Lord wrath, which will occur between the sixth and seventh seals of Revelation, sometime during the second half of the seventieth week. The persecution associated with the great tribulation of Antichrist is viewed as the wrath of Satan, whereas the events that follow, beginning with the seventh seal, are considered the wrath of God.' (www.solagroup.org) For more information, do a search for posts by "kalos" that contain the word "prewrath". Grace to you, Kalos |
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6 | Why does Jesus come as a thief? | 2 Pet 3:10 | ebrain | 188515 | ||
Hi Kalos. Thank you for your explanation, another person with whom I correspond claimed to be moving from "Pre-Trib", to "Pre-wrath", bellow is a copy of an e-mail I sent, and upon which I would value your comments. The Lord bless you.. Edwin. If by Pre-wrath, you mean that Christians are raptured before the, wrath of God is poured out on the earth, then I have no problem with that. However, the question is just when in time, does God's wrath start? There are differing views, some for example maintain that it starts in the middle of the tribulation, that is to say, it starts at the end of the first three and a half years, others think that it starts at the beginning.. Personally I am not sure, have a look at the 13 verses I posted to you running from Rev 6:16, to Rev 19:19, all of which include the word "Wrath", now I am well aware that sometimes it is speaking of the wrath of God, and sometimes the wrath of Satan. My own opinion is that there are only three Satan verses, namely Ch's 12:12, 14:8, and 18:3. And that all the other verses, ten in total refer to the wrath of God. Now it is a fact that Satan can only do what God allows him to do, and therefore, it could be argued that all that happens as a result of the outpouring of both the wrath of God, and the wrath of Satan, is as a result of the Divine will, and therefore, all seven years of the tribulation are the wrath of God, if this is the case, then both the Pre-Wrath, and the Per-Trib, position are identical?. |
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7 | Why does Jesus come as a thief? | 2 Pet 3:10 | kalos | 188620 | ||
Edwin, Thanks for the reply. Regrettably, my time on the internet is severely limited. So I do not have time to compose answers to your questions, which in fact are good and reasonable questions. For further information on the wrath of God vs. the wrath of Satan and the timing of the rapture, see the books "The Sign" and "The Rapture Question Answered". Go to www.solagroup.org for more information regarding the author and publisher of these two books. Grace to you, Kalos |
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