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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why does Jesus come as a thief? | 2 Pet 3:10 | kalos | 188162 | ||
On The Same Day 'When does the wrath of God begin?' 'By Rev. Roger Best __________ "In the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24) and in Luke 17 Jesus tells us that His coming will be like it was in the days of Noah and Lot. The same day that Noah and his family entered the ark (Gen 7:11-13) the rains came, and as Lot retreated from Sodom and Gomorrah judgment came. That same pattern of timing will occur when Christ returns for us; we will be taken and then judgment - the wrath of God - will come upon the earth." __________ 'This is a vital question since we as believers are promised deliverance from God's wrath. In 1 Thessalonians 1:10 we are told "to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who delivers us from the wrath to come." And again in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, "For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation (deliverance) through our Lord Jesus Christ." In the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24) and in Luke 17 Jesus tells us that His coming will be like it was in the days of Noah and Lot. The same day that Noah and his family entered the ark (Gen 7:11-13) the rains came, and as Lot retreated from Sodom and Gomorrah judgment came. That same pattern of timing will occur when Christ returns for us; we will be taken and then judgment - the wrath of God - will come upon the earth. 'The period of the wrath of God is spoken of in Scripture as "The Day of the Lord." In Amos 5:20 the day of the Lord is spoken of as a day of darkness and gloom. In Zephaniah 1:14-15 it says, "Near is the great day of the Lord, near and coming very quickly; listen, the day of the Lord! In it the warrior cries out bitterly. A day of wrath is that day, a day of trouble and distress, a day of destruction and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness." The day of the Lord is the day of God's wrath. 'In 1 Thessalonians 5 the Apostle Paul writes that to the believer the day of the Lord will not come like a thief in the night; in fact, the admonition is to be alert and serious. Then in 2 Thessalonians 2 Paul says that the day of the Lord will not come until "the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God" (2 Thessalonians 2:3b - 4). Now with that in mind, we go to Matthew 24 and see in verses 22, 29, 30, and 31 that Christ cuts the persecution of Antichrist short with His coming for the saints. The disciples had asked, "What is the sign of your coming and the end of the age?" (v. 3), and Jesus explains what will take place. The sign of His coming is the heavens lighting up like lightning, and the sign of the end of the age is the cosmic disturbance that results in the sun, moon, and stars going dark. We see this occurrence at the sixth seal in Revelation 6 and see that it fits exactly with what Joel 2:31 says: "The sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes." 'At the opening of the sixth seal we see Jesus Christ coming in the clouds for the saints, followed immediately by the wrath of God. The first five seals which are on the outside of the scroll are broken and non-supernatural events (false christs, war, famine, death and martyrdom) take place with a greater intensity than ever before. Revelation 12:12 speaks of this persecution by Antichrist as Satan's wrath, but when the seventh seal is broken the scroll is opened and Revelation 8:1 tells us that "there was silence in heaven for about a half hour." Why? Because all of heaven knows that it is time for God's wrath. As the seven trumpets are blown and the seven bowls are poured out, the events that take place are supernatural as God's judgment falls upon planet earth.' ____________________ http://solagroup.org/ articles/faqs/faq_0003.html |
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2 | Why does Jesus come as a thief? | 2 Pet 3:10 | mark d seyler | 188168 | ||
Hi Kalos, Just to present an alternative view . . . One of the foundational premises here is that the wrath of God is equal to the complete destruction of the sinners, as happened during the flood, and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. This is given as a foundation to the assertion that these plagues will occur following the second coming of Jesus. The wrath, revealed from Heaven upon the ungodly during the time described in the Revelation, includes the "trumpet judgments", and the "bowl judgments". But do these judgments effect the complete destruction of the sinners out of the land? They do not. Therefore, they are not equal to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, nor are they equal to the flood. Therefore, this argument does not show a requirment that the trumpet and bowl judgments only following Jesus' second coming. There are many Scriptures that show God's wrath is revealed before Jesus' second coming. One more thing, concerning this idea that the persecution will somehow be "shortened from" 3.5 years cannot be correct. If it were, this would render Daniel 7:25 a false prophecy: ". . . and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and a dividing of a time (3.5 years)" That cannot be. The persection of these saints, beginning after the Abomination of Desolation, WILL last the full 3.5 years. It is, therefore, not "cut short" FROM 3.5 years, it is "cut short" TO 3.5 years. I do, however, heartily agree that God will remove His redeemed before He reveals His wrath, but even then, He will not turn away any who come to Him. They will, unfortunately, have missed the opportunity to escape these things that are coming upon the earth. Love in Christ, Mark |
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3 | Why does Jesus come as a thief? | 2 Pet 3:10 | CDBJ | 188259 | ||
Greetings Mark, With reference to your pointing out the Lord’s wrath as you stated: “Therefore, they are not equal to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, nor are they equal to the flood. Therefore, this argument does not show a requirment that the trumpet and bowl judgments only following Jesus' second coming.” I think that many try to read more into the verses about Noah and Lot then are actually taught. Luke 17:26-30 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. Now from reading those verses can we “assume” that someone will be building an ark when it happens or gathering feed for all the animals? Maybe everyone will be wearing sandals and there won’t be any cars trucks or planes or if one looks back they could be turned into a pillar of salt, I gest? I believe the emphasis expressed in the previous verses is on the fact that God’s wrath will occur on the “very same day”; the day that God’s believers are delivered to safety and or removed from harm before God strikes, nothing more nothing less. CDBJ |
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4 | Why does Jesus come as a thief? | 2 Pet 3:10 | mark d seyler | 188281 | ||
Hi CDBJ, The only point of comparison I referrenced in my post was the degree of judgment. I didn't cite any examples of fashion, culture, or occupation. The point I was making was specifically confined to the fact that the trumpet judgments, presented by Scripture as plagues, and wrath, were not directly comparable to the flood, or to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Those judgments were specifically to destroy the unrighteous entirely. The trumpet judgments are not. The trumpet judgments each have a specific limitation. This is a significant difference, and it is one that I am not comfortable overlooking. Love in Christ, Mark |
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