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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | Morant61 | 207656 | ||
Greetings Val! Excellent break down my friend! However, textually, it would make just as much sense to say that the 'those' are those who were believers that did not show diligence to the end (v. 11). The text never uses the terms 'true believers' and 'false believers'. Verses 7 and 8, also do not make a distinction between 'true land' and 'false land'. The distinction is between productive and unproductive land. In fact, these two verses are very much like the words of Jesus, when He speaks of vines in Him that bear no fruit (John 15:2) which are ultimately burned (John 15:6). So, I would respectfully disagree that Heb. 6:7-8 clearly shows that the 'those' were false believers. I base this conclusion on the descriptions used of the 'those' in Heb. 6:4-5. I don't see these as appropriate descriptions of an unregenerate person, especially the last one which identifies them as 'partakers' of the Holy Spirit. I know that President Clinton tried to claim that he smoked it, but didn't inhale. However, I can see no way that an unbeliever can 'partake' of the Holy Spirit without 'having' the Holy Spirit. :-) Further, as Beja has pointed out, the word 'again' is used of their repentance. The text does not say, 'it is impossible for them to repent.' It says, 'it is impossible to renew them AGAIN to repentance.' They had already repented once. How could that be said of an unbeliever? Further, how could it be said of a non-Christian that he was 'crucifying Christ all over again'? How could a 'false believer's' rejection of the truth be described in such a way? Though we may not agree on this point, I love and respect you my sister in Christ. Keep up the great work! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | Val | 207669 | ||
Dear Pastor Tim, Beginning in Hebrews 5:11 - 6:12 I mark the group of people called the recepients in orange. They are referred to as "you, us, brethren". Other groups of people are marked in their own colors. But is a word of contrast. I mark it in a different color. Therefore is a word of conclusion I mark it in a different color. Let us and better are other key words I mark in a different color. This is some of what is included in an "observation worksheet". Now concerning your question about Verse 11 - I marked "you" in orange. The word "those" is not in verse 11. I would have to go back and study John inductively to comment on that cross reference but a question does arise, do you feel the John passage you quoted shows "a turning away"? Could you tell me what you believe the verses in Hebrews 6:7-8 mean? Do I understand you the "partakers of the Holy Spirit" is the phrase that you base your view on or are there other passages in the bible that support your view? So the phrase "it is impossible to renew them again to repentance" - your view is they repented. I see but did they? That is the question. Doesn't that make your view even more difficult? Because if you can turn away isn't that saying you can't come back? How do you explain that perspective? In verse 9 it starts with a contrast (the word but) of "those" who will be burned and "you" who show love... The "those" in verse 12 are explained as "those who through faith and patience inherit the promise". So this is a different "those" than the those who will be burned up because of the description. Blessings, Val |
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3 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | skccab | 207672 | ||
Shalom Val, I've been following the various threads going recently and have been introduced to the "inductive" style of Bible study that you are doing. I'm not sure whether I'm at a point to attempt it or not just yet, but I do have one question: Do you use just your NASB, or do you check the other major "versions" to make sure the same words are translated the same way? (As has been brought up in this particular thread, regarding Heb. 5, the KJV uses the words "decern both" and other versions say "descern between" which can be understood entirely differently.) In this format, this may sound like a criticism, but it isn't, I'm just curious. Cheri |
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4 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | Val | 207678 | ||
Hello Cheri, I use the NASB. When I order a bible study on a book of the bible from Precept.org the observation worksheet is included in the workbook in NASB version. I think you can print out observation worksheets from the Preceptaustin site. They are double spaced and give plenty of room to make notes and color the words. Then after you are satisfied with what you have done you can transfer it to your bible if you prefer. I personally just use the workbook. There are several steps in the workbook one of them being word studies. There are many dictionaries out there. I use Vines and Ziodiates. Also you may also use different versions of the bible. In inductive study you are asked to do the observation first before you go to commentaries. I would say since some bibles are paraphrased they should be treated as commentaries. The defination indeed adds to the meaning of a sentence. There is much, much work that goes into inductive study so that when you finish the study you know that you know what you have studied. I also have The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible by Tenny. They have come out with a newer version available this fall I believe. I would like to have it. I have the older version. It is a five volume collection. I like books. Yes you could check major "versions". Any research that would aid you in your study is encouraged. We are only limited by time. After each lesson is done in the workbook, ideally you would gather together with others and discuss what you studied for a suggested hour. And finally you watch a one hour tape of teaching which is optional but I gain more if I watch or listen to the teaching. Your attention is constantly going to the word to see what the bible says. I am not in a group right now I do my workbook at home and watch the tape after I finish a lesson. Its great for me. Blessings, Val |
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