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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | DocTrinsograce | 207639 | ||
Hi, Tim... I know that few Arminians are strictly historic Arminians -- even the definition seems to have fluctuated over time -- but I thought that the following was, nonetheless, interesting. Jacobus Arminius wrote to John Uytenbogard in 1599, "If any one supposes that the affirmations which are made in Hebrews 6 and 10, belong only to those who, after their open profession of Christianity, shall relapse and fall away, let him know that contumely and reproach are poured on 'the Spirit of grace,' by those who have never made a profession of Christianity, and that these words -- 'to renew them again unto repentance,' and 'the blood through which he was sanctified,' seem properly to belong to those who have not made a profession, and that the remaining parts of the description belong to the entire order of those who sin against the Holy Ghost." In Him, Doc |
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2 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | Morant61 | 207657 | ||
Greetings Doc! I've noticed the same thing about Calvinism. It sure has changed over the years. :-) While I can't speak for anyone else, when I was growing up, I had no idea who Jacobus Arminius was. I couldn't have explained the differences between him or Calvin. The source of my theology was Scripture. Later, in college, I discovered that I had much more in common with Arminius theologically than I did with Calvin. But, as we have discussed in the past, I owe no obligation to either man to believe or accept what either has to say other than Scripture. Sometimes I agree with Arminius, while other times I disagree. I even agree with Calvin sometimes. :-) I did read the letter you cited, and I came away unsure exactly what he was saying. In the immediately preceding passage, he seemed to be saying the opposite of your quote. The 'if' of your quote makes me wonder if he believes the following point are is arguing against someone else's position. Either way, the crux of the matter for me is the phrase 'partakers of the Holy Spirit'. Can this phrase describe an unregenerate person? Many of those who argue that it can, seem to take the phrase to mean that they are partakers of the general gifts of the Holy Spirit. However, this seems to be an example of 'eisgesis' since the text says that they were partakers of the Holy Spirit, not His gifts. Matthew Henry went so far as to claim that the gifts of the Spirit were poured out upon the unsaved during the Apostolic age. Unfortunately, this particular phrase is not ever used again in Scripture. However, the author of Hebrews does use the word 'partakers' several other times. They are: Heb. 1:9 - "You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy." Heb. 3:1 - "Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess." Heb. 3:14 - "We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first." Heb. 12:8 - "If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons." Unfortunately, his uses of the word are varied enough that no one could be dogmatic about the meaning in Heb. 6:4. The closest to his use in Heb. 6:4 would seem to be Heb. 3:14. Each usage does seem to have the common feature of some sort of relationship. So, my problem still remains, how could it be said of an unregenerate person that he is a 'partaker of the Holy Spirit'? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | Searcher56 | 207658 | ||
God's day to you, Tim, Doc and others, I too mix what Arminius and Calvin said. I have shifted from being more Calvinist to near the middle. On eternal security I believe if one is truly saved, he has eternal security. Only the person and God know if they are truly saved. There are some who think they are truly saved, based on what they are taught, in error. Searcher |
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