Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | Beja | 207590 | ||
Azure, since I feel your post seems to be the one that best grasped the question I'm replying to this one, but some comments will be meant to reply to other posts so please don't feel I'm putting words in your mouth, rather I'm really replying to the entire thread. First, lets lay out more clearly what exactly the problem is. Hebrews 6:4-6 describes a person who is described as this: 1. Once been enlightened 2. have tasated of the heavenly gift 3. have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit 4 have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come. 5. And then have fallen away Now, lets be open and honest and say that in any other context than what he says about these people following, we would all assume 1-4 describes a saved person. In fact, it seems a very strong description of a saved person. Perhaps it does not, and perhaps that is the answer, but if we are going to argue that we have an uphill battle. If anybody wishes to argue this the burden of proof is on them to really truely explain how you can possibly understand this to mean something other than somebody who has been saved. The problem developes in that it says they have fallen away, and it is impossible to renew them again to repentence. This appears to be saying they are now lost. Perhaps it does not. But we should be honest and admit that at first blush, that is how an honest person would see that description. The problem of the passage develops further when it apparently explains why they can not be renewed again to repentence. Since they again crucify again to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. This appears that it is saying that the reason that they can not be moved to repentence is that it would require another sacrifice of Christ which obviously isn't coming. Now, lets recap. What this passage appears to be saying upon a very basic glance over is the following. 1. A save person is being discussed. 2. In the IF scenerio they fall away 3. They can no longer be made to repent 4. Another death of Christ would be needed for them to do so. Now, for somebody like myself whoes does NOT believe you can loose your salvation. This is a problem verse. Keep in mind that I'm not arguing that this is how the verse must be understood. Quite the contrary, I intend for us to debunk that understanding of it. However, it will not help me, nor any other Christian who struggles with this verse for us to pretend it does not at first glance say the above. So, we must admit what it appears to say, then through showing what it actually was meaning to convey, give an alternative understanding of the verse. Now, in response to your post Azure. I think your repsonse merits some thought. There is certainly in scripture the idea of a person becoming very nearly a Christian, very much involved in Christianity and then falling away because they never truely were converted. I take the passage you refered to as a primary example of this. But ofcourse the question becomes, is the description in Heb 6:4-6, particularly meaining a partaker of the Holy Spirit too strong to be refering to somebody who wasn't actually saved and indwelt of the Holy Spirit? I'll certainly think about it. I'm leaning at the moment to this person described being saved but clearly I'm open to thoughts on it. |
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2 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | hopalong | 207614 | ||
HI Beja These folks are NOT believers, they are apostates! Tasting alone does not mean that they went on to eat and enjoy. One may partake, without believing. for instance I may partake of a Church service (even enjoy it) and leave and leave empty. I suggest you allow scripture interpret scripture. of God Bless, Hopalong |
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3 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | Beja | 207616 | ||
Ok, this is a valid view point. I disagree. But it is a valid view. The question I forward to you is this, if these people are not believers, and never were. Why can't they be moved to repentance? And why does it say moved to repentance "again." If we hold this position, then we are in essence saying that at a certain amount of hearing the gospel, then people are finally excluded from it. Yet how many people hear it for decades and finally surrender to it? As I said, its a valid view point but I personally at the moment can't bring myself to agree both based on the basis of the words the passage uses, and then based on the scenerio that seems to represent. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying I currently think there isn't enough to tip the scales for me to buy into it. | ||||||
4 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | hopalong | 207622 | ||
You seem to be reluctant to move from your belief that these "tasters" and "partakers",are regenerate, and that despite a mountain of scripural evidence to the contrary! The answer follows.. Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, Heb 6:6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. WHY? Heb 6:7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; Heb 6:8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. Can a good tree bear bad fruit! I dun tink so. Hoppy |
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5 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | Beja | 207624 | ||
I have yet to see this mountain to which you refer. I can though see what your view point is, I will forward the question to you which I have asked of each of the others who have held this interpretation. Why is it that somebody who was not saved but has walked away from it not later repent? And why does the author state that the reason they can't is because they again crucify the christ for themselves? Shall I just not point out the weak points in various arguements so we can persue the best understanding possible? |
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6 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | hopalong | 207626 | ||
ANS: Repentance is a gift from God . Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." Acts 5:31 "He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. Cor 7:10 For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. Hoppy |
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7 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | Morant61 | 207628 | ||
Greetings Hoppy! Beja made a good point though, vs. 6 speaks of 'renewing them again to repentance'. The 'again' indicates that they had already repented once before. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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8 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | hopalong | 207632 | ||
Hi Tim, Yes, I agree. However I believe that regarding doctrine, it is advisable to allow scripture to interpret scripture. It is inadvisable to found a doctrine on a solitary verse. Hoppy Kind regards, |
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