Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Do you have scriptures to affirm? | 2 Thess 2:3 | skccab | 187730 | ||
Hi Royal Sorry took so long for me to respond, been very busy, had some down time at work tonight and read your verses. And I've never disagreed, those verses indeed do talk about the Second Advent, but not the catching away of the church. I have 4 questions (one is just a common sense, logic question, but I'm sure we get our logic from God): 1 - After Rev. 3 the Church is no longer seen as being on earth. If the church is still waiting to be caught away, where are we? 2 - REv. 19:9 (this is before the 2nd Advent) If the church is still on earth, then who are those present at the marriage supper of the Lamb? 3 - Rev. 19:14, if the church is still on earth waiting to be caught away, then who makes up the armies of the Lord that return to earth with Him to set up the millennial kingdom? And the logic question: If the Church is to go thru the judgments of the tribulation then why would God bother with a catching away to begin with, especially since the church would be returning from this catching away almost immediately to be with the Lord in the millennium period. For what purpose would the rapture serve at the end of the tribulation? blessings cheri |
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2 | Do you have scriptures to affirm? | 2 Thess 2:3 | mark d seyler | 187767 | ||
Hi cheri, I'd like to respond to these questions, if I may. Before I do, I want to clarify that my understanding is that Jesus will catch away the church at the beginning of the 70th Week. 1 - After Rev. 3 the Church is no longer seen as being on earth. If the church is still waiting to be caught away, where are we? Since the Church is not specifically stated as being either in heaven, or on earth, I think we have to look elsewhere for this answer. This would be an argument from silence. However, I find it most interesting that as the 144,000 Jews are being sealed, they are "the" servants of God. If the church is still on the earth at that time, they would be servants of God also, so these 144,000 wouldn't comprise the entire group. Following their sealing, an innumerable multitude appears in heaven. That would sure answer the question of where the rest of the servants of God went. However, this is not explicit. 2 - REv. 19:9 (this is before the 2nd Advent) If the church is still on earth, then who are those present at the marriage supper of the Lamb? This is a very strong argument in favor of rapture before heaven opens, and Jesus begins His return to the earth. In this passage, the wedding is an accomplished fact - its already happened. This places the church in heaven with Jesus clearly before Jesus is on His way back to earth. The church CANNOT be those who are gathered to Jesus after He leaves heaven for His bodily return to earth. 3 - Rev. 19:14, if the church is still on earth waiting to be caught away, then who makes up the armies of the Lord that return to earth with Him to set up the millennial kingdom? This could be angels, or could be the redeemed. The passage isn't explicit. The logic question. A post-trib rapture can make sense in that Jesus, having protected the church during the partial judging of the earth up til then, removes the church before unleasing total devastation upon the world, as the bowls are poured out, and the armies of the world destroyed. I don't think this is a correct view, but this is the logic as I understand it. I wanted to respond to these because I think that there are a number of "proofs" of pre-trib rapture aren't actually very solid, but on the other hand, there are, in my opinion, a number of extremely solid evidences in favor of pre-trib rapture. One thing to consider is that the gathering of Matthew 24:31 CANNOT be the rapture of the Church, because it does not include all believers. The remainder of the believers not gathered in Matt 24:31 will be a part of the gathering of nations in Matt 25, specifically those who are separated out as the sheep. Likewise, that gathering CANNOT be the rapture of the Church, because both saved and unsaved are gathered together, then separated. The Rapture (catching away - not gathering) will be all those who are in Christ, and none who are not. Therefore, it cannot be the gathering of the elect in Matt 24:31, nor the gathering of the nations in ch. 25. It MUST come before those, since those close the age, and as we've already seen, the wedding of the Lamb will have already happened. Love in Christ, Mark |
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3 | Do you have scriptures to affirm? | 2 Thess 2:3 | skccab | 187773 | ||
Hi Mark, You said it much better than I did, but you took my stance, the catching away happens before the tribulation, not after. It is not the second coming of Christ for He does not come to the earth but in the clouds to catch away His own. In the second coming He does come to earth with His own to set up the millennial kingdom. Thank you for your response, Mark blessings cheri |
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4 | Do you have scriptures to affirm? | 2 Thess 2:3 | mark d seyler | 187775 | ||
Hi cheri, Like others have pointed out, Jesus' first advent began with a baby in a stable, and continued for 33 years. He did not publically announce Himself, with all the accompanying signs, till near the very end, as He was about to comsumate His work of redemption. I would not be surprised to see the same thing at the second advent, as His work builds and builds, then He reveals Himself as He is about to consumate His judgment and close of this age. God bless! Love in Christ, Mark |
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5 | Do you have scriptures to affirm? | 2 Thess 2:3 | skccab | 187810 | ||
Hello, Mark Thanks for holding down the fort so to speak while i was at work. The scriptures I use to describe the rapture before the tribulation are the very same ones these fine folk use for the second coming. I just happen to see the "last trump" being just that - not the last and seventh trumpet - but as the assembly of Israelites would be called to gather by the blowing of a trump or ram's horn - so this "last trump" is God's last call to the Church to assemble and be caught up with the Lord and to be forever with the Lord. I cannot express it any other way. blessings cheri |
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6 | Do you have scriptures to affirm? | 2 Thess 2:3 | mark d seyler | 187843 | ||
Hi cheri, I tend to agree with you on this. Love in Christ, Mark |
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