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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | 2 Corinthians- What is 'suffering' | 2 Cor 1:5 | gracefull | 80881 | ||
Talmid..Thank you for your post. By considering your chosen text, I gather you believe we should read Isa. 53:10 as what we too should experience? 2 Corinthians 1 says we will share His sufferings (by association) but that we will also share His comfort and deliverence (by association). However, Jesus did not 'suffer' from sickness and desease...until He took ours. And suffering was not forced upon Him, He accepted it when it was time. "My time has not come" and later He said 'No man takes my life from me, I lay it down'. Isaiah 53:4-6 states that Jesus took our sicknesses and deseases through the atonement..Just like our sin...(see Mathew Henry) You will also notice when you read this commentary that although Matthew Henry acknowledges that healing is part of the atonement, he 'issues a disclaimer' which had absolutely NO scriptural references to support the disclaimer. This disclaimer , and I agree, instructs the believer to search the scriptures regarding healing. The 'suffering' of believers should be carefully searched out scripturally because I believe traditions teach that 'all bad things' are 'suffering with or for Christ'. Paul in 2 Corinthians makes NO mention of sickness and desease as part of the sufferings, so I do not believe we should add it where it is not stated. Rest...See Hebrews chapter 3 and 4 and listen carefully to 'rest'. 1.Seek to define scriptural rest. 2.Seek to determine how to achieve it. talib...tradition has 'penciled' in sickness and desease where it is does not belong. The reason I believe this is because of Isaiah 53. God chose to (by secondary nuance) add healing to the statement of Jesus atonement. God bless |
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2 | 2 Corinthians- What is 'suffering' | 2 Cor 1:5 | Taleb | 80905 | ||
Graceful, I have been following this posting. It reminds me of one of many Scriptures Exodus 4:11 "And Yahweh saith unto him, ‘Who appointed a mouth for man? or who appointeth the dumb, or deaf, or open, or blind? is it not I, Yahweh? Who GAVE Moses’ sister and brother leprosy? Read Deuteronomy 28:15-68 to learn what the God, who changes not, "promises" to do to and with His people. How does this fit in with what you are in effect saying about God's desire to always healing all, all the time? The last time I heard someone expressing such a concept against one of many of God’s “means” of dealing with “His people” was in a poor country years ago. Some of the team got diarrhea. The team prayed for them and some were “healed” and others weren’t. ONE team member boldly proclaimed to the “unhealed” ones that their faith was too weak. Later, that “judgmental” team member, along with another couple, and my wife and I, were teamed up together in the poorest of sections. It was hot, we were sweaty, tired and thirsty. And our water bottles were empty. When we approached a shack of broken bamboo, an old woman, warmly invited us inside. She kindly offered us each a glass of water from her rusty water bucket. Her toothless grin was as genuine and radiant as any angel’s could be. Mark 9:41 rushed through my mind. It promises "whoever gives you a cup of water to drink, on the ground you belong to Christ, I tell you, will certainly not fail to be repaid". We could see the “floaties” in our dingy glasses. Four of us drank the water, knowing and believing another promise, “nothing shall by any means harm you.” Only the team member, whom had “judged” the sick, refused to drink any water, whispering, “Don’t tempt the Lord your God.” That night, that team member thought surely death was calling. Both ends flowed. Never, in all my days of being a missionary, have I ever witnessed anyone AS sick. As a team we prayed for a quick recovery. But the sickness lingered for the remainder of our tour. The only other time I have witnessed such a happening was in Bible College where someone wasn’t “healed” from a sore throat. The “judge” proclaimed that same argument, “where’s your faith.” That judge was, to my knowledge never able to father children. The judge, a man of 21, soon had a severe case of mumps … we could never figure how an enclosed environment, such as that college was, “attracted” that one case of mumps, but … Please. Graceful, be careful with your words. If you were to ask my team member if God “allowed sickness TO teach" – the answer would be shouted from the house tops. YES! He loves us THAT MUCH. Respectfully, Taleb |
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3 | 2 Corinthians- What is 'suffering' | 2 Cor 1:5 | gracefull | 80913 | ||
Who GAVE Moses’ sister and brother leprosy? Read Deuteronomy 28:15-68 to learn what the God, who changes not, "promises" to do to and with His people. If you believe scripture confirms your belief... fine...if you accept it because it is what you have been taught or because you have not 'seen proof' these are the wrong reasons. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Jesus COULD DO NO GREAT WORKS THERE BECAUSE OF THEIR UNBELIEF.... What do you think of that? Moses sister received leprosy for murmoring and inciting the people against Moses, God's chosen spokes person... God bless |
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4 | 2 Corinthians- What is 'suffering' | 2 Cor 1:5 | Taleb | 80967 | ||
Good point, when you state, if I believe Scripture confirms my belief. It DOES confirm it – over and over and over - which is WHY I believe it. God's Word is what “taught” me. Too many have tried to "teach" me the erroneous concept that God has nothing to do with sickness, and that ALL sickness is of and only from satan. Realizing that Scripture “translates” Scripture, I can’t find any Scriptures that back up their doctrine about satan being the source of sickness. I, and my wife, have been healed numerous times over the years. I have prayed for people to be healed, and they have been healed. Feeling a check in my spirit, there have been times when I have NOT prayed for someone’s healing too. I am seldom sick, but when I am sick, it has always been for my benefit. And that verse you quoted in a previous posting fits. ALL things DO work together for good. ALL THINGS includes NOT just perfect health, but it includes sickness too. And it is so true. You mentioned that “Jesus could do no great works there because of unbelief.” Interesting, (that word “there”) because "there" doesn’t “necessarily” include anywhere except “there” wherever “there” happened to be. In other places, Jesus was very “selective” with His healing. The man at the pool couldn’t get in when the angel stirred the water because someone else always beat him into the pool. Every ailing person around that pool had “the faith” to be healed when the angel stirred the water. Only one at a time got healed, until that angel came back later to stir the water again. YET JESUS ONLY HEALED that one (who knows how many others missed their turn) who wasn’t able to get in fast enough. If God expects ALL with faith to receive “their healing”, why didn’t as many as could get into the pool receive healing? For that matter, why didn’t Jesus tell everyone, “You are all healed, go on home”? It is obvious they ALL had the faith - because they were "there" TO BE HEALED. How many times did Jesus walk by the man who was healed by Peter in Acts 3? That man had been placed there daily for years. And how come Peter didn’t heal him the day, week, or month before? It says they went there everyday to pray. And it says the man was laid there every day. There are soooooooooooo many other examples that cancel the doctrine of “perfect health” for all. Jesus even said in effect, "Doctors are for the sick." If sickness is NOT of God. Neither are doctors. Respectfully, Taleb |
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5 | 2 Corinthians- What is 'suffering' | 2 Cor 1:5 | gracefull | 81012 | ||
"You mentioned that “Jesus could do no great works there because of unbelief.” Interesting, (that word “there”) because "there" doesn’t “necessarily” include anywhere except “there” wherever “there” happened to be." "This is off the subject of healing sickness and desease but it does speak to 'unbelief'. And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. 19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you." Was this unbelief hindering God's work? Remember, Jesus had 'given them authority'. That is an interesting view point. Are you saying unbelief 'there' was somehow different form 'unbelief today? Their unbelief was unique? My friend...unbelief is unbelief regardless of the geographic location. "How many times did Jesus walk by the man who was healed by Peter in Acts 3? That man had been placed there daily for years. And how come Peter didn’t heal him the day, week, or month before? It says they went there everyday to pray. And it says the man was laid there every day." What did Peter say of this miracle? "And on the basis of faith (25) in His name, it is the name of Jesus which has strengthened this man whom you see and know; and the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect health in the presence of you all." Faith in the Name of Jesus mad this man whole. As for Jesus passing many times, this is not stated in scripture..but if Jesus did pass many times, do you think Jesus was 'lacking in faith' that would have healed? Since he was healed by faith in Jesus it had to either be Peter's faith or the lame man's faith...Either way, it was 'by faith'. "There are soooooooooooo many other examples that cancel the doctrine of “perfect health” for all. Jesus even said in effect, "Doctors are for the sick." If sickness is NOT of God. Neither are doctors." God created doctors to correct the deseases He puts on us? No, if He wants us sick why would we go to doctors to get better. If He wants to teach us through sickness...we need to cease in our efforts to get well. This thread was created to discuss 2 Corinthians and it's use in the doctrine of sickness being the 'suffering with Christ' Paul was speaking of. God bless |
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