Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | 2 Corinthians- What is 'suffering' | 2 Cor 1:5 | gracefull | 80564 | ||
"There has been much debate on the exact nature of the thorn, of course, but there are a few things that we can be certain of:" There is no room here for debate...scripture is clear..messnger(angel) from Satan.so unless you can say Cancer is an angel from Satan inflicting, there can be no debate...I can see THAT being preached from a pulpit! The messenger is not some illusive word in which you can pick and choose an convenient alternative. "While it was from Satan, it is also true to say it was given by God, since the purpose was to keep Paul from exalting Himself. Satan's purpose is never to humble us before God our Father." Given by God and allowed by God are totally different. Scripture says it was a messenger(angel) FROM Satan. Scripture does not say "from God". God simply did not 'remove' it AND told Paul why! But again...since it "One more note on sickness: Paul praises Epaphroditus as an example of Godly faith in Philippians 2 for sacrificing himself for the cause of Christ in spite of his life-threatening illness." You see 'Paul did not criticize him for lack of faith...' The subject here is not judgementalism. Paul did praise him for his Godly faith in continuing in service despite the sickness in his body and secondly God healed him. The subject is God's will to heal. God healed Epaphroditus... "So whether we are talking about sickness or not, God ordains that uncomfortable, unhappy, and dangerous things happen to His children for His glory. Why someone would simply cut sickness out of that list of uncomfortable, unhappy, and dangerous things doesn't make a lot of sense." By leaving Satan in service...active in the earth..believers will experience great challenges,persections and troubles and as Paul said we have Jesus's encouragement and deliverance... It makes no sense to me and is even wrong to ADD it when it is not there. Remember these are scriptures used to enforce the teaching that sickness is from God to teach us. Only when altered do they substantiate this doctrine. To state that suffering 'should' include sickness and desease is to disagree with what the scripture and the Greek translations state. IN CONTEXT Paul is speaking of suffering as persecutions, and troubles or obstacles...and is not speaking concerning sickness and desease. 1Peter 2:24 The Stone of stumbling... He himself bore our sins in His body on the stake, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness-by His wounds you were healed. Wounds-Strongs #2390 cure, heal, make whole Also used in Matthew 8:8 Matthew 8:13 Mark 5:29 Luke 6:19 Acts 3:11 And many more scriptures pertaining to PHYSICAL HEALING. I am disappointed that in light of these truths, you choose to continue to defend an interpretation of these scriptures that has been created by religion to 'comfort' rather than teach truth, WHEN TRUTH IS THE ULTIMATE COMFORT. God bless |
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2 | 2 Corinthians- What is 'suffering' | 2 Cor 1:5 | Reformer Joe | 80569 | ||
Hi again; you wrote: 'Given by God and allowed by God are totally different. Scripture says it was a messenger(angel) FROM Satan. Scripture does not say "from God". God simply did not 'remove' it AND told Paul why!' Let's look at the verse in question: 'Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me--to keep me from exalting myself! Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.' --2 Corinthians 12:7-9 We see the verb "given." The messenger is definitely of Satan, but precisely who did the giving? If we say that this was a gift of Satan, we have a theological problem: "Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself"...Satan gave me a thorn in the flesh? Does this make sense to you? Either God did the giving or Satan is willingly doing the sanctifying work of God. Speaking of Epaphroditus, you wrote: "Paul did praise him for his Godly faith in continuing in service despite the sickness in his body and secondly God healed him." I must admit confusion on your position here. Why did FAITHFUL Epaphroditus get so sick and stay sick so long, if it was never God's will for that to happen? And, yes, God healed HIM. That was an act of His sovereign mercy, according to Paul, and not an obligation on God's part. Where do we see that He is obliged to heal everyone in the same manner? And regarding 1 Peter 2:24, let's look at the context: "For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls." --1 Peter 2:21-25 Now, reading the whole paragraph, is Peter's focus sin and spiritual healing, or illness and physical healing? Please support your answer in the context of his argument in the paragraph, chapter, and epistle. Thanks! --Joe! |
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3 | 2 Corinthians- What is 'suffering' | 2 Cor 1:5 | gracefull | 80571 | ||
"Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself"...Satan gave me a thorn in the flesh? Does this make sense to you? Either God did the giving or Satan is willingly doing the sanctifying work of God." This does not create a theological problem for me. what Satan means for harm, God turns to my good. Satan insitgated the death of Jesus, thus providing life for whosoever will.... But again, this does not address the subject.... The thorn is a messenger(angel) not sickness. "For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls." --1 Peter 2:21-25 Now, reading the whole paragraph, is Peter's focus sin and spiritual healing, or illness and physical healing? Please support your answer in the context of his argument in the paragraph, chapter, and epistle. In context...the truth that "by His wounds we were healed" does not change. His wounds, our healing. God bless |
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4 | 2 Corinthians- What is 'suffering' | 2 Cor 1:5 | Reformer Joe | 80686 | ||
"This does not create a theological problem for me." Then which is it? Did God give the thorn in the flesh or was Satan willingly doing the sanctifying work of God? 'In context...the truth that "by His wounds we were healed" does not change. His wounds, our healing.' Yes, our spiritual healing. That is what the context suggests, and no support is found for any alternative understanding. To say that the single clause in 1 Peter 2:24 refers to physical sickness would be forcing a meaning onto the text that doesn't fit in with anything Peter is talking about this passage (or even in the whole of his epistle). You many choose to hold to that understanding, but that doesn't change the fact that, exegetically speaking, it is an unwarranted one. --Joe! |
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5 | 2 Corinthians- What is 'suffering' | 2 Cor 1:5 | Morant61 | 80691 | ||
Greetings Joe! You may have already mentioned this point, and I simply didn't see it, but may I add the following observation to this discussion? The verb 'healed' in 1 Peter 2:24 is an aorist verb, so it refers to a past event, not a future one. Whatever 'healed' refers to in 1 Peter 2:24 took place at the moment of the cross. So, how can this verse possibly be refering to future acts of physical healing? It doesn't say that I will be healed if I have faith. It says that by His stipes I WAS HEALED. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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