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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What's Jesus' position? | 1 Cor 15:27 | stokeyhk | 55952 | ||
I've covered Isaiah 6:1 and John 12:41 already, but, to reiterate, see Isaiah 6:8: "Who will go for US?" You didn't read Isaiah 9:6, then? Stokey. |
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2 | What's Jesus' position? | 1 Cor 15:27 | srbaegon | 55986 | ||
Hello Stokey I just did a search of all your postings on this forum and could not find and references to either Isaiah 6:1 or John 12:41. But to reiterate, Isaiah only saw one person. Isaiah 6:1 (ESV) In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. And he heard only one voice other than the seraphim: Isaiah 6:8 (ESV) And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I! Send me." I suppose you're going to say Jesus is actually a seraph? Of course I read Isaiah 9:6. It was in your posting. But what was your point in giving it? Steve |
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3 | What's Jesus' position? | 1 Cor 15:27 | stokeyhk | 56104 | ||
How ya doing, Steve. You seem to be the only one who wants to talk to me now! You know, those modern translations that you use'll be the death of you. What is ESV anyway? 1) As you may know, the Greek word rendered worship is "proskyneo." Strong says this word means: "to fawn or crouch to, i.e. (lit. or fig.) prostrate oneself in homage (do reverence to, adore)." a) "Jesus said to him: 'Go away, Satan! For it is written, "It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service."'" b) Jesus said: "The true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him." From these two verses, we can see that Jesus taught us to render exclusive worship to his Father. "Proskyneo" is rendered as "worship," but not exclusively so. For example: the NIV renders it "fall down" in Revelation 3:9, and "fell on his knees before him" in Matthew 18:26. Why? Context! Whereas the KJV renders them as "worship" and "worshipped." What about in the case of Jesus? Should it be rendered as "worship" or as "fall down"? Consider Mark 15:19. Here the KJV renders it as "worshipped" regarding what the soldiers did to Jesus. However, the NIV renders it as "falling on their knees, they paid homage to him." Why? Context again! They clearly did not view Jesus as God or as a deity. As "bow before" (AT), 'pay homage' (NEB) and 'do obeisence' (NWT) are in harmony with the Greek, with Jesus' comments at Matthew 4:10 and John 4:23, and the angels comments at Revelation 22:9, these individuals who 'performed proskyneo' to Jesus were doing so because they recognized Jesus as God's representative and as "the Son of God." (Matthew 14:32, 33) c) It was angels, not humans, who, as the New English Bible says, 'paid homage' to Jesus in Hebrews 1:6. 2) As you rightly quoted, Isaiah said he heard Jehovah speak these words: "Whom shall I [Jehovah] send, and who will go for us [Jehovah and Jesus, John 12:39-41]?" So Isaiah heard Jehovah say, "us." Isaiah also "got to see [in vision, Exodus 33:20] Jehovah." Was John teaching that the Jehovah Isaiah saw was in fact the prehuman Jesus? Consider two things: a) John 12:38 calls Jesus "the arm of Jehovah." b) John 12:40 applies Isaiah 6:10 to Jesus showing that he was sent by Jehovah to do a preaching work. (Isaiah 61:1; Luke 4:16-21) The "glory" that Isaiah saw was, as John 1:14 says, "the glory as of the only begotten of the Father." (Genesis 1:26; Proverbs 8:30, 31) 3) Rather than Jesus being granted "life in himself" "from eternity," Isaiah 9:6 says Jesus would be called "Everlasting Father [life-giver] after he 'was born as a child' and glorified. (John 5:26, 27; 17:2) Thus being granted to have "life in himself" to eternity based on his 'ransom as the Son of man.' (Matthew 20:28) 4) Revelation 21:2 says: "I saw the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God." This, then, is focusing on the earth and "men." (Verse 3) 5) Jesus said the Queen of the South "came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom." Seems like Jesus didn't view him as losing sight of anything. The apostles' quotations from the Proverbs show this, too. The expression "under the sun" refers to a life excluding God's purpose which is indeed "meaningless." (Ecclesiastes 1:2, 3) Solomon was focusing on planet earth, whereas Peter was focusing on "ungodly men." (2 Peter 3:5-7, 10, 12, 13) Stokey |
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4 | What's Jesus' position? | 1 Cor 15:27 | Hank | 56131 | ||
Stokey: You said to Steve, "You know, those modern translations that you use'll be the death of you."..... So what are you REALLY saying, Stokey? That all translations are wrong that disagree with the New World Translation on many key issues? If that is so, then that would make ALL translations, King James, New American Standard Bible, New King James, English Standard Version, Holman Christian Standard, etc. wrong, wouldn't it? By your standard and the standard of the cult called Jehovah's Witnesses, the New World Translation is the only correct one, is that right? Correct me if I am wrong and show me why. --Hank | ||||||
5 | What's Jesus' position? | 1 Cor 15:27 | stokeyhk | 56229 | ||
Hello, Hank. Of course "modern" does not mean "all" translations. It means modern ones. As you may know, Jehovah's Witnesses have only been using the New World Translation of the Greek Scriptures since 1950, and the complete one since 1961. So much of the understanding was gained from other older translations. Further, Jehovah's Witnesses have the rights to print the KJV, the ASV and Byington's Bible. 1) Notice this comment from the preface of the Living Bible: "Whenever the author's exact words are not translated from the original languages, there is a possibility that the translator, however honest, may be giving the English reader something that the original writer did not mean to say." 2) The American Standard Version of 1901 used the name Jehovah almost 7,000 times. However, its successor, the Revised Standard Version of 1952 completely removed it. Why? They cited Jewish tradition. (Matthew 15:6) However, Psalm 83:18 clearly reveals God's will: "That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the Most High over all the earth." (Psalm 83:18; Matthew 6:9; John 12:28; 17:26, KJV) 3) Reasoning from the Scriptures, published by Jehovah's Witnesses, uses 28 different Bible translations. If you have been reading my posts, you'll see that I rarely used the New World Translation. Stokey. |
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6 | What's Jesus' position? | 1 Cor 15:27 | Morant61 | 56233 | ||
Greetings Stokey! I know that in the past, the JW's would not publish the identity or qualifications of those who "translated" the New World Translation. Have they done so yet? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | What's Jesus' position? | 1 Cor 15:27 | kalos | 56235 | ||
Dr. Martin: You have been quoted as saying that the translators of the NWT are “diabolical deceivers.” Dr. Mantey: Yes. The translation is deceptive, and I believe it’s a terrible thing for a person to be deceived and go into eternity lost, forever lost because somebody deliberately misled him by distorting the Scripture! Dr. Martin: What would you say to a JW who was looking for the truth? Dr. Mantey: I would advise him to get a translation other than the NWT, because ninety-nine percent of the scholars of the world who know Greek and who have helped translate the Bible are in disagreement with the JWs. People who are looking for the truth ought to know what the majority of the scholars really believe. They should not allow themselves to be misled by the JWs and end up in hell. ************* New World Translation STATEMENT DJ265 Dr. Julius R. Mantey was a first-rate scholar who studied Greek for more than 65 years. He was well known for A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, which he co-authored with Dr. H. E. Dana. The following is a discussion that took place between Dr. Martin and Dr. Mantey on the Jehovah’s Witnesses New World Translation. Dr. Martin: I don’t know whether you’re aware of it, but there is not a single Greek scholar in the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I did everything I could to find out the names of the translating committee of the NWT, and the Watchtower wouldn’t tell me a thing. Finally, an ex-JW who knew the committee members personally told me who they were, and the men on that committee could not read New Testament Greek; nor could they read Hebrew; nor did they have any knowledge of systematic theology — except what they had learned from the Watchtower. Only one of them had been to college, and he had dropped out after a year. He briefly studied the biblical languages while there. Dr. Mantey: He was born in Greece, wasn’t he? Dr. Martin: Yes, he read modern Greek, and I met him when I visited the Watchtower. I asked him to read John 1:1 in the Greek and then said, “How would you translate it?” He said: “Well, ‘the word was a god.”’ I said: “What is the subject of the sentence?” He just looked at me. So I repeated. “What is the subject of the sentence?” He didn’t know. This was the only person in the Watchtower to read Greek and he didn’t know the subject of the sentence in John 1:1. And these were the people who wrote back to you and said their opinion was as good as yours. Dr. Mantey: That’s right. Dr. Martin: Often we find JW publications quoting scholars. Do they quote these people in context? Dr. Mantey: No. They use this device to fool people into thinking that scholars agree with the JWs. Out of all the Greek professors, grammarians, and commentators they have quoted, only one (a Unitarian) agreed that ‘The word was a god.” (www.equip.org Click on "Free Articles". In search field type: New World Translation) |
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