Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58599 | ||
Paul was dealing with an outpouring of Spirit in Corinth. The Pharisee in him wanted to control it and subject it to rules. His 'God is not the author of confusion' comment sounds so wise and noble, and he is ever quick to pull out his authority as an Apostle. 'You should listen to me even when I am not speaking from the Lord because I am one the Lord has found trustworthy' (1Cor 7:25) The authority he quotes though is Temple Law. He says Tongues are for the unbelievers. (1Cor 14:20-22). A surprise for Peter and the other 120 with him (Acts 1:15)--men and women, on the day of Pentacost to learn. Acts 2:4 says "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them." Who was the unbeliever locked up in that house among them? Paul saw himself as THE apostle though. I don't buy the Christian to Christian gentle rebuke motive for him in the Peter incident either. Not with comments like 1Cor 15:9,10 "For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle,.....But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them..." Catholics call it the throne of Peter, but they take their doctrine straight from Paul. They love the rules and the 'you gotta come through me' attitude he held. He even says that if the Spirit gives any spiritual gifts to anyone that person should be ignored unless they acknowledge that what Paul says is the Lord's command. (1Cor 14:37) Have you ever wondered why God wouldn't let Paul go into certain areas to spread the Gospel? I've always got the impression it was because he would have done more harm than good. He was awfully full of himself. He loved the Lord above all else, and it just poured out of him in truly beautiful wonderful works, but sometimes he just couldn't get over himself and his upbringing. I'm glad he was a zealot for the Lord though. Jesus is so wonderful. He sure knows how to pick the right man for the job. But I just don't know why Paul should be the authority on dealing with outpourings of the Spirit in church. His letter to Corinth is taken as the only Gospel on it, but go back to Acts and Pentecost. Peter and his group got so wild, everyone thought they were drunk when they poured out onto the streets. He and the Eleven got up and celebrated this, using it as an opportunity to preach. You didn't read that he told anybody to shut up or that they should restrain themselves so "...all things should be done with regard to decency and propreity and in orderly fashion." (1Cor 14:40) Jesus tells us Peter was to be the rock His church was built upon. I adore Peter and I want to be a Christian like him. Paul is much too judgemental and rule-bound for me. He's a Pharisee. I love Paul. 1Cor 13 is one of my favorite chapters in the Bible. How could anyone think it was not written by someone in the grip of the Holy Spirit? But I have to remind myself that not everything that came from the apostles was of the Spirit. Peter himself was praised by Jesus in one moment as having had a revelation straight from God, and the next moment was being called the devil, and told to get away. An example of this with Paul, is that Jesus said if we want to come to the Father we have to come as little children, but Paul says, "...stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults." (1Cor 14:20,21), then he goes right on to quote the Law. A true Pharisee. And it was Jesus who warned us to listen to them, but don't be like them. A final comment about Paul. In 1Corin 15:5-8, he deliberately leaves out any mention that it was the women who walked with Jesus who were chosen to take the news to the Apostles that Jesus was risen. Matt, Mark, and Luke, all feel it is important to tell this. The only Gospel actually written by one of the Apostles goes further and says not only did angels appear to the women, but that Jesus Himself came to the sobbing Mary and basically said, "Woman, what are you doing?" (John 20:15) Read those verses. The angels had already come to instruct her, but Jesus, who had not yet even gone to His Father after His resurrection, was moved by His love for her to stop and comfort her himself. "Mary!" He said to her. Can't you just hear Him? In one word, he says, didn't I tell you about this? Am I not standing right here in front of you? now, get up and hush. Could He not have appeared just as easily first to Peter? Or John, "the disciple that He loved"? But He didn't. And the fact that He stopped on the way to His Father, still ceremonial clean (Don't touch me---), just to stop this cherished woman from grieving one moment longer, speaks to me of a love that is just immeasurable. Jesus loves men, but He cherishes women. Praise God! Thank you Jesus and I love you, too! |
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2 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | srbaegon | 58602 | ||
Hello Melanie You: "he is ever quick to pull out his authority as an Apostle." He was quick to call on his authority when it was required. Paul was not dealing with an outpouring of the Spirit, but a very fleshly group of Christians. He needed to call on his authority to get things in line. You: "The authority he quotes though is Temple Law. He says Tongues are for the unbelievers. (1Cor 14:20-22). A surprise for Peter and the other 120 with him (Acts 1:15)--men and women, on the day of Pentacost to learn. Acts 2:4 says 'All of them'....Who was the unbeliever locked up in that house among them?" You misunderstand 1 Cor 14. Paul is saying that tongues is for the benefit of unbelievers, not that unbelievers would receive this gift. We can see that in Acts 2 where it got the attention of the Jews so that Peter could preach to them. You: "Paul saw himself as THE apostle though." He saw himself as AN apostle. And Peter needed a severe rebuke for his conduct. You: "He even says that if the Spirit gives any spiritual gifts to anyone that person should be ignored unless they acknowledge that what Paul says is the Lord's command. (1Cor 14:37)" Paul is writing under the inspiration and authority of the Holy Spirit. He was correct, and it would not conflict with a spiritual gift given to another. I will ask again that you please give up this rant against the apostle Paul. It's obvious you dislike him, but what he writes is of the Holy Spirit--all of it whether we like it or not. Steve |
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3 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58615 | ||
So if I have legitimate questions of things I find written in the Bible, and post my observations and questions about them, on a FORUM created for such study, I am ranting? You seem to find it necessary for my salvation that I should give Paul equal authority with Jesus and with the pathes the Holy Spirit is forcing me personally to walk. Hmm. I'll pray about that, but...well, I don't want to poison the soup, but I am not going to be granting anyone authority equal to Jesus that isn't the Father or the Holy Ghost. |
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4 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | Morant61 | 58651 | ||
Greetings Melanie! I am usually very active on the forum, but I have been extremely busy the last few weeks. So, I haven't had the opportunity to read everyone of your posts, but I have read many of them. I like your comments about Adam! :-) I have been saying for years that Eve was deceived, while Adam just said, "Okay!" In regards to this thread, the question appears to center upon exactly you view the writings of Paul, Peter, or any other Biblical author. Granted, that even godly men and women are still faliable, Scripture teachs us though that the writings of the Bible are inspired, infalliable, and inerrant. I think this is why your post about Paul has caused such an uproar. According to the Bible, the letters Paul wrote in Scripture where done under the authority and inspiration of Christ. Thus, it is not a question of choosing to obey Paul over Christ. Rather, both are in complete harmony (or it might be more correct to say that Paul is in harmony with Christ :-)). So, maybe you can share with the forum your view of Scripture. Is it the inspired, infalliable, inerrant Word of God or do you view some of it as simply the opinions of fallible men? The answer to this question might clear up some of the questions. p.s. - Welcome to the forum. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58699 | ||
I believe that Scripture is the inspired, infalliable, inerrant Word of God. No ifs, ands, buts, or exceptions. I love Paul, and it has been a journey getting there. These very few Scriptures were so hurtful to me that I would cry and wonder why God did not love Woman. But my spirit would not accept that God did not love woman, so I kept at it. Unceasingly. I accept that the Word as it was given from Paul is infalliable, so then the error was either in me, my reading of it, or in the translation of it because I know God not only loves woman, but deeper, He cherishes and delights in them. Can you imagine my comfort when the Spirit brought me to Proverbs 8, where the Word says Wisdom is a woman? and in verse 30 I read, "Then I was beside Him as a master and director of the work; and I was daily His delight, rejoicing before Him always." (Amplified) Once I worked through my sorrow and pain, rejecting it, accepting on Faith that God loved and cherished and delighted in the female aspect of "...His image and likeness", then He takes me straight to a Scripture that even uses the word 'delight'! Praise the Lord and His Mighty Name! That was some weeks ago, and I don't believe it coincidence that almost the very first thing I get into on this forum is this very Paul whom I so recently come to love in all his writings, even those I do not understand. Yesterday I left this forum and even felt like Paul. After he had been stoned and left for dead. I awoke this morning and rose from my prayer like Paul determined that even after being stoned I would continue. God loves me, and so does Paul. On Faith I returned to my studies knowing that as long as I don't give up the quest for Truth, I will find the treasure of it. In Faith, I went to my Bible content that the Word itself would reveal the way I was to go. So where did it take me? Back to 1 Corinthians 14. The source of all this controversy and angst. Except this time, do you know what verses drew me? Verse 11, "If I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me." Then verse 19, "But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue." And finally, back up to Verse 15, "So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind." It was like Paul himself was speaking through to time straight to me. I love it when the Word does that! Sorry.... I had to pause for a minute and just praise God!!! Now I have come to my computer and checked my email and come here to this forum. Again. Back into the lions den. Except now I have some interesting information delivered to me over these lines of bits and data. Something I had not considered, and somethings I had not known. And a very nice post from a very nice Christian man, also "coincidentally' named Timothy. I had not considered that Timothy was not a letter of instruction to the church, but a letter counseling Timothy on how to organize the church. And it had just skipped over my mind that the church in question was Ephesus. Ephesus, where the women were not traditionally educated. So now I look at 1Timothy 2:11 and 12, and see that Paul is saying these women should learn. "...in quietness and full submission." Well of course. That is the proper attitude for any student with her teacher. And of course, these women should not be teaching their husbands! Talk about a blind guide! I even understand the Adam and Eve reference. I've always thought God punished Man because he listened to Woman, when it was supposed to be Woman who listened to Man. He was the one God gave the knowledge to...Hah! I just thought of something. I just answered a post last night on the Adam and Eve thing under the Christ's Elect thread, clarifying my thoughts on that (and called a feminist and dismissed by the man this morning! LOL!) My goodness, the Spirit has been busy with me. In any event, I view the Greek definition of "Head" as the source. Which in the original early Greek was used about 97 percent of the time, and rarely defined as "authority", not even in all of the 3 percent not defined as "source". What a terrible source these Ephesian women would have been for teaching men when they were not only new to the Faith but also knew to learning itself. It would have no doubt have had the same results of Woman leading Man in the Garden. I never back these things up, yet just a moment ago I copied this to notepad, and no sooner had I done it then my connection was lost. I would have lost all of this if I'd not been able to paste it back on. Praise the Lord! So now I'm going to end this post having told you 'what I had not considered' then if you don't mind I'll tell you the rest of this in what "I didn't know" until this morning in a second post. |
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6 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | Morant61 | 58700 | ||
Greetings Melanie! I learned along time ago to use my Word Processor on any of my longer posts! ;-) I too have lost my work on several occasions. Excellent answer! I never did like the translation in the KJV of 'help meet'. I have previously posted the following comments: *********************************************** "Helpmeet" is the KJV translation of 'ezeer'. This word is used 21 times in the OT, all but a couple are in reference to the strength of God. Therefore, Walter Kaiser, Jr. has purposed the following translation of Gen. 2:18 - "I will make a power corresponding to man." This even makes sense of the context, where Adam is naming the animals and is unable (Gen. 2:20) to find a "power" corresponding to him. The word never referred to an inferior, but always to someone of equal or greater power who is able to help. ************************************************* Personally, this is how I think all men should view their wives! :-) If you would like to read my take on some of Paul's teachings, type "13446" into the quick search box. I look forward to interacting with you more in the future. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | Hi JesusFreak | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58714 | ||
As a woman I came to be comfortable with the term "helper" along time ago. When the only other times I could find that term used in the Bible it was referring to God or the Holy Spirit, I figured Woman was in excellent company! Going to read your other post now. Do you know what a Godsend you are? Melanie |
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