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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Women speak in church? | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58546 | ||
The Law he is referring to is as noted above to have its reference in Gen 3:16. "To the woman He said, I will greatly multiply your grief and your suffering in pregnancy and the pangs of childbearing; with spasms of distress you will bring forth children. Yet your desire and craving will be for your husband and he will rule over you." Well, this says I will be ruled by my husband because my desire and craving will be for him. And its true. I have eaten in many a restaurant I don't like, because I invariably find myself letting him have his way. And I have shoes and outfits I don't like for the same reason. It is my desire (love) for him that makes me give in to him all the time on all kinds of issues. God said it, and I can testify that its true. But I submit because Jesus tells me to submit. And that's a two way street. No where though do I find in the Bible that says I should or that I have to submit to any man or every man. When I first read this verse and verse 35, I was devastated. I prayed on it for days! So in my Bible studies over the next few days, the Spirit started leading me around the Scriptures. First He took me to Jesus warning us to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. Then He took me to Acts where He pointed out to me that Paul was a Pharisee. Then He took me to 1Corinthians 7:12 and 25, where Paul says outright that he is speaking from his own opinions and not from any revelation of the Lord. I was feeling better. That night I prayed over it, then the next morning I was led to 2Corinthians 5:16,17. In verse 16, dear Paul says that we should estimate and regard no one from a purely human point of view, in terms of natural standards of value.--- So how does he justify his 1 Corinthians order for women to be quiet "just as the Law says"? By his OT, Pharisee traditions it is "disgraceful for a woman to talk in church, for her to usurp and exercise authority over men in church." Yet by his NT 2 Corinthians 5:17 teachings, "Therefore if any person is ingrafted in Christ the Messiah he is a new creation, a new creature altogether..." Does this mean, except for women? We're still to be bound by the Law? Dead in our sin? NOT! I was feeling ALOT better by this point. Then I read 2 Corinthians 6:3 "We put no obstruction in anybody's way, we give no offense in anything, so that no fault may be found and our ministry blamed and discredited." -- Wrong! I and no doubt many, many women found fault and were offended. Then God took me to Mary, the first person to see Jesus after He rose. He pointed out to me that Jesus actually stopped on His way to ascending to His Father to comfort this WOMAN. There ended up being a reason for His telling me to speak through my husband in our church (specifically our Wed night Bible studies with our newly ordained young Pastor), and of course, He was right and it was best that I do it. I would have obeied irregardless, but it was really great the way that He comforted me. Because God really does love women; and I think Paul came around to understanding that before he finished his run. Oh, and you might also read Acts 1:13-14. Jesus had told them all, the men and the women, to go back to Jerusalem and wait, and in Acts 1:13,14, there they are, the men and the women, praying and worshiping and waiting together as they had been commanded. Even though that was against their Jewish/Temple Law--the same one which was the basis for Paul's saying above. It was only when they disregarded that Law and were obedient to Jesus, that the Holy Spirit came to them. Jesus told them it would, because He knew they would obey Him. That act of Faith and obedience breaking down prejudice and traditonal walls invited the Holy Spirit to work as it would.---So you want to go back to the Law? |
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2 | Women speak in church? | 1 Cor 14:34 | EdB | 58561 | ||
jesusfreak508@aol.com This is just an observation, but from what you wrote it sounds like your Bible is filled with conflicting statements. Your not far off track but I would go back and think through how you got here. Paul did not contradict himself, nor does God. One thing I will agree with is women are not in submission to every man, only their fathers if unmarried and to their husbands if married. As for your eating habits and dress I'm not sure that is submission as much as wisdom on your part. Paul makes this statement in 1 Cor not from his OT background but rather to correct a problem where women in that church were out of submission and were doing things in church that showed this. EdB |
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3 | Women speak in church? | 1 Cor 14:34 | jesusfreak508@aol.com | 58593 | ||
Paul did not contradict himself? In 1 Corinthians 7:25 Paul does have the grace to say that this is not from the Lord, but his own personal opinions (I think that confession was from the Lord!), but does claim that since he is who he is even his opinions should be considered trustworthy. Then he goes on to advise the married men to adopt the attitude of one who is not married! Contrary to God's commands on the same subject in Genesis and to the teachings of Jesus Himself. In that chapter, he tells the unmarried men and women that they should stay that way to better focus on the Lord, then in the chapter 14 verses says women shouldn't be even allowed to ask questions about the Lord except in their home from their husbands. Well, either he's contradicting himself or he's purposely trying to slap a tape over the mouth of at least that generation of women. And yes, I've heard that arguement before about it was just a problem he was trying to correct in that church. But I think chp 11 verse 16, puts the brakes on that notion. "If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice--nor do the churches of God." And would you not call it contradictory when the council at Jerusalem under James writing letters to the new Gentile converts tells them to not eat meat sacrificed to idols, then Paul writing in his letters tells them that it doesn't matter unless someone who thinks it is a sin is watching? 'My Bible' is an NIV student addition, a King James Version, an Amplified version, and a new historical "So That's Why" Bible. I pray constantly when I do my Bible studies and cross reference between all of them, and now I have this wonderful forum and a host of internet study sources, and the conflicting statements I find are in all of them. I have no instances where God makes any conflicting or contradictory statements, but I could give you a list of where PEOPLE in the Bible conflict with their own words, with each other, and more often conflict with what God teaches. Paul's falling back on the Law, or more accurately Temple traditions to support his views on women is a perfect example of that. And I know what Jesus Himself preached on the Pharisees and their attachment to their Traditions; even over God's Laws. I thank you for your comments though. Truly. If I sounded a bit snippy, I apologize. Teaching me to accept well-intended rebukes is one of the things the Spirit is working on with me at this point in my spiritual growth. As for eating habits and dressing, that I wouldn't put under submission or wisdom actually. I think of it more as an example of "God said it". Genesis isn't giving a command to women, God is just telling them the way it's going to be. Like it or not, we will be ruled over by our desires for our husband. He didn't say it would be a choice. I think any woman if she is honest will admit that like it or not we find ourselves doing things, some simple like restaurants and clothing, but some profound, some even damaging (a woman staying with a wife-beater) because we are ruled by our desire/love for our husband. Having said that, I am not saying women should stay with a boyfriend or husband who beats them or that God wants them to do such a thing. Actually I think that horrible situation is exactly why women should stay celibate until they are married and then should choose their husband very carefully, meaning a Godly man who stands willingly under God's authority and who delights in being in God's presence. Such a man is not going to harm or hurt his wife or children, and should the unthinkable happen, the wife has recourse through God. God made us ruled over by this desire for our man, and if we pick the wrong one and live with him under the wrong circumstances we are still ruled by that Genesis/Godly decree. Feminists may say no man rules me, but an honest woman will look at all the ways she gives into the man she desires/loves and realize its true whether she likes it or not. The woman staying with the wife-beater is just the most extreme example of it. oh boy. Hope that one doesn't get me in trouble. Melanie |
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4 | Women speak in church? | 1 Cor 14:34 | srbaegon | 58595 | ||
Hello Melanie Saying that Paul contradicted himself will definitely get you in trouble. So, I'll ask nicely that you reconsider your thoughts. Peter considered Paul's words to be Scripture (2 Pet 3:15-16). I do, too. If Paul contradicted himself, then Scripture (at least Paul's epistles) is not trustworthy. There has to be a better explanation for Paul's remarks concerning women. As for your comments in the last couple of paragraphs--excellent points! Steve |
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