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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is Mt 28:18 commanding water baptism? | Acts 2:38 | Ray | 77451 | ||
Hi disciplerami, I agree with Searcher56 that Matthew 28:18-20 does not mention water, and neither Mark 16:16 nor Acts 2:38 mention water. Tell me if you would what verse you were thinking of when you wrote, "Since the Holy Spirit was imparted at God's discretion, when and where God chose to pour it out..." The verse that comes to my mind expresses the opposite, Matthew 7:11, "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your Father in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him." Luke 11:13, "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the *holy *spirit to those who ask Him?" John 3:34 tells me that Jesus spoke the words of God; He gives the *spirit without measure. We need to be washed with the word of God. Notice that I put holy spirit in lower case. Are you open to putting your Holy Spirit in lower case since you have the connection of "pouring IT out". From the heart, Ray |
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2 | Is Mt 28:18 commanding water baptism? | Acts 2:38 | disciplerami | 77473 | ||
Greetings Ray, You are right, those verses I mentioned don't specifically say the word 'water', but that is the clear implication. By denying that 'water' baptism is the subject in the three passages I referenced, do you conclude that Holy Spirit baptism is the subject? If so, on what basis? Where in the same verses do you see anything about HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM? I can follow your line of reasoning and deny that Holy Spirit baptism is the subject. Your own logic refutes your implied point, doesn't it? Where does it say anything about 'baptism' in the following verses you reference? Matthew 7:11, "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your Father in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him." Luke 11:13, "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the *holy *spirit to those who ask Him?" The Holy Spirit cannot be measured out, but the Holy Spirit can, Himself, be given as a seal, an earnest of our salvation (Eph 1:13,14). It is absolutely necessary that the individual have the indwelling Spirit in order to be saved. If he doesn't have the Spirit, then he doesn't have God (Romans 8:9-11). However, we know from 1 Corinthians 12 that God distributes the superntural gifts of the Holy Spirit as He see fit. Not everyone spoke in tongues, not everyone prophesied, etc. In fact, Paul's words to the Romans indicated that not all Christians had miraculous gifts, they were 'ungifted' (1 Cor. 14). In the book of Acts, until Acts 6, there is zero indication that anyone but Apostles had supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit [obviously, as I've stated already, every Christian had the non-miraculous indwelling]. See Acts 2:7,15,43; 3:6; 4:33; 5:12 (the only possible exception is what is said in Acts 4:31, but that is not definite. Obviously something miraculous happened, the place shook, as when Peter was miraculously delivered from prison, but it doesn't say that the Christians actually had any miraculous abilities). Chapter six changes when the Apostles lay hands upon the seven men chosen to do service. After that, the men had "power." Before the laying on of hands, they were very spiritual, but had no "power." Your effort to tie everything together by saying "we need to be washed with the word of God" does not fairly depict what is said. The salvation moment, the 'washing' comes throught the blood of Christ, when the Holy Spirit renewed, at the washing of water, which was received by commandment. The salvation moment is AT water baptism, BY grace, His blood, and by Holy Spirit (Titus 3:4; John 3:5). Thanks for the dialogue. Let's keep on searchering for the truth and we shall find it. God bless you, Disciplerami |
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