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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Kathy, Is "Lifting His name" Biblical? | John 12:32 | Morant61 | 103958 | ||
Greetings Kathy! May I ask your source for this information. I ask because, while I agree with your overall point, the translation proposed doesn't make sense. For instance, in the material you reference, mention is made of a 'future perfect'. There is no such thing as a 'future perfect'. Both 'future' and 'perfect' refer to Greek tenses. A verb would have to be one or the other. My approach to a verse like this is simple. Begin with the verse itself. Then look at how that particular author uses the word. Finally, look at how the word is used in all of Scripture. In this case, 'lifted up' is used in many cases as a reference to 'praise' or 'exaltation'. However, John never uses the term in that way. All four of his uses refer to a physical lifting up on a pole or from the earth. In fact, John specifically states in John 12 that it was a reference to the manner in which Christ would die. So, I would say that John refer to one particular event - the cross. The 'hotan' (when) and 'tote' (then) cleary demonstrate this point. John is saying that at that point, and not other, they will know. Anyway, I was just curious about your source. I have enjoyed your posts and I am glad that you have stayed with the forum my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Kathy, Is "Lifting His name" Biblical? | John 12:32 | khuck | 103960 | ||
Hi Tim :) Sure thing - you translate from the hotan my translations says otan (ote an) (whenever) and upsow -he may exalt you. Nonethess I stated my references below. ***Greek Lexicon - When ye have lifted up the Son of man: (otan upswshte ton uion tou antrwpou). otan: when, whenever, as long as, as soon as Indefinite temporal clause with otan (ote "plus" an) and the first aorist active subjunctive of upsow, to lift up (Koine verb from upsov, height), used several times in John of the Cross of Christ (3:14; 8:28; 12:32,34). It is unnecessary to render the aorist subjunctive as if a future perfect, simply "whenever ye lift up" (actually lift up, ingressive aorist). In Acts 2:33 the verb is used of the Ascension. otan: when, whenever, as long as, as soon as *** So this translates in more than one way - It can be said: Jesus therefore said, "When, whenever, as long as, as soon as , ye have lifted up the Son of man ***Greek Lexicon - And I, if I be lifted from the earth (kagw an upswtw ek thv ghv). an: case, 1; everyone, 1; except, 1; if, 2; or, 1; though, 2; unless, 34; whatever, 22; when, 2; whenever, 2; wherever, 8; whether, 1; whoever, 17; whomever, 2; upswtw (upsow):That he may exalt you upsow:That he may exalt you (ina upswshi). Purpose clause with ina and first aorist active subjunctive of upsow*** So this translates in more than one way - It can be said: Whenever, wherever, however that you may exalt Him from the earth. God Bless you as always, -Kathy |
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3 | Kathy, Is "Lifting His name" Biblical? | John 12:32 | Morant61 | 103962 | ||
Greetings Kathy! After I posted to you, I found the quote you cited in Robertson's Word Pictures. But, I suspect a mispring, since a verb cannot be both 'future' and 'perfect'. :-) BAGD (The Greek English Lexion of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature) says this about 'hotan' when used with an aorist subjunctive verb: ************************************* w. the aor. subj., when the action of the subordinate clause precedes that of the main clause...and oft. W. tote foll. when (someth. has happened), then ************************************ I wish we could actually use Greek fonts on this forum! :-) It is difficult to follow all of the different transliteration schemes. But, the gist of the above entry is what I had said previously. 'hotan' introduces the condition, while 'tote' introduces the result. So, the verse really can't translate more than one way. This is one reason I don't care much for the Amplified Bible (sorry Lockwood). A word or phrase doesn't carry with it every possible meaning in every sentence. :-) John 12:32 makes it clear what John means when he says 'lifted up'. He isn't speaking of praise. He is speaking of death on a cross. I agree with Aixen's comments. You have the right concept, just the wrong verse. ;-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Kathy, Is "Lifting His name" Biblical? | John 12:32 | Searcher56 | 103970 | ||
Tim .. .some Greek and Hebrew fonts work. | ||||||