Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Aliehs | 22123 | ||
(post continued from the previous post).... We have to surrender completely to the Holy Spirit and the more we give in to Him, the more He can work in us, and the more we become like Jesus in practice and the more our new nature reflects HIS nature. Mirror-image. We will manifest the fruits of the Spirit. Cannot be done through the law, can be done through the blood. Holiness / righteousness is not outward, it's inward. Work/law is from outward to inward, holiness / righteousness is inward to outward (from our hearts), and grace establishes our hearts, not law. 2 Thessalonians 2: "16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work." You said: "Take a look at John in Revelation 1 to see how our "righteous" selves react in the presence of the glorified Christ." You mean "fall at His feet as though dead"? I'm sure my present body which is still corruptible cannot yet stand in the holiness of God so yes, I do believe I'll fall. Does that mean I'm not righteous? No, I am righteous - but my body is still not yet transformed to the glorious one. John’s wasn’t. THAT's why he fell, that’s why I'll fall at His feet. But once I get my new body, the only reason I'll fall at His feet will be to worship Him and be in awe of him because my new body will by then be able to stand in His holiness. Finally, as for your statements: "By mocking the historic Christian views of positional righteousness vs. practical righteousness...... . But your view, which gained popularity in the 20th century, is probably the right one. After all, the first 1900 years of Christian thought probably didn't have the same wisdom that you apparently possess..." First of all, that last sentence of yours is not going to have that sarcastic effect you were trying to get on me. Why? Because for MANY years down in history, the church had managed to make people think the world was flat even though the bible does mention about it being a "circle". Who is more reliable regarding truths? The church or the bible? I'll stick to my bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Second of all, I admit that I'm not familiar with what the Reformers did in history, so I'm sure they've done a lot of good things. However, I certainly do not agree with their views of positional righteousness vs. practical righteousness. Just because it's a view rooted deep in history does not mean that it's growing the right tree. The "first 1900 years of Christian thought" is not as important as the thought of the bible - and the view which you don't agree with and "which gained (so-called) popularity in the 20th century," actually agrees consistently to what Paul demonstrated in his letters to the churches. In fact, it agrees consistently with the teachings of Jesus too. Grace can never mix with law, just as water can never mix with oil. Not even a bit of each. If we want true transformation, we have to let God do it. Not only will it then be effortless on our part, but it will also be true and totally "made in Heaven". Philippians 1 "5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 being confident of this, He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." THAT short passage alone, summarises the gist of Philippians 3:8-14 which Paul wrote in detail after what he said in Philippians chapter 1. Would be strange, if he should contradict himself in the same letter. Joe, I know that your views about "working our way to attain righteousness in nature and practice through the law" means well. But once we bring the law in, self comes in too. They both come together. The old covenant is ALL about us doing things for God. In the new covenant, it's ALL about Christ doing things for us. Do we TRY, or do we TRUST? Do we STRIVE, or do we REST? Let's not steal Christ's glory by getting ourselves involved in His work in us. The works of Christ was a "stumbling block" to the people practised in the law (Pharisees) because everything which comes by grace from Christ became "too easy" to attain. Don't let the works of Christ in us be a stumbling block to you - we'll enjoy it more when we allow Him to work instead of making ourselves work our transformation. The devil KNOWS it's that EASY for us, who are children of God, to enjoy our new heritage by trusting and relying TOTALLY on God's grace, and he'll do his best to make us go back under law even though we preach Jesus Christ. The best channel for him to do that, is not through the world, but through the church. But GOD will ensure that His truth (which sets people free TOTALLY) breaks through the lies. (post continued in the following post).... |
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2 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Aliehs | 22124 | ||
(post continued from the previous post).... Let us have Heaven Inspired Behaviour instead of Self Attained Behaviour. Let's not put the words and works of God into boxes and label them "positional" or "practical", but let's just give God all the glory He deserves for giving freely us the things we DON'T deserve. Let's be TOTALLY "Made in Heaven" and not half "Made in Heaven". Our ONLY "duty" / "responsibility" under the new covenant is to know more about Jesus, respond to His work on the cross, and PRAISE Him for EVERY good and perfect gift - that includes the gift of our righteousness which cannot be attained totally or in part, but which can only be RECEIVED totally. PERFECT gift. May the Lord's grace be on you :o). Stand fast in your FREEDOM given to you by grace! :o). |
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3 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Reformer Joe | 22153 | ||
"Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God." --1 Peter 2:16 "For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another." --Galatians 5:13 "But prove yourselves DOERS of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does." --James 1:22-25 "But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification." --Romans 6:17-19 You wrote: "Our ONLY "duty" / "responsibility" under the new covenant is to know more about Jesus, respond to His work on the cross, and PRAISE Him for EVERY good and perfect gift - that includes the gift of our righteousness which cannot be attained totally or in part, but which can only be RECEIVED totally. PERFECT gift." God's response: "But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;" --1 Peter 2:9 "Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation." --1 Peter 2:12 "For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men." --1 Peter 2:15 "For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps," --1 Peter 2:21 "As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written, 'YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY.'" --1 Peter 1:14-16 "Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more... For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality... For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but in sanctification." --1 Thessalonians 4:1,3,7 "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven." --Matthew 5:17 "Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share," --1 Timothy 6:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." --Ephesians 2:10 etc. --Joe! |
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4 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Aliehs | 22225 | ||
I'll reply you point by point so that we "stay in line" here: "Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God." --1 Peter 2:16 "For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another." --Galatians 5:13 Simply put - do not ABUSE grace by thinking that it's a license to sin. We should stand firm in our freedom, not abuse it!!!!! Romans 6 1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? *************** "But prove yourselves DOERS of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does." --James 1:22-25 First of all, DOERS (you emphasised) of what? The WORD (I'd emphasise that instead). NOT the law. If we simply hear the word (hearers) and not FED/meditate on it (doers), then we'll start to forget who we're supposed to reflect - Christ. THAT'S who the word is - Christ (the word which became flesh). "Perfect law, the law of liberty" or NIV "perfect law that gives freedom". As far as I know, the law, though IS perfect, does NOT give me liberty under the old convenant. It can actually BOUND me because it is conditional. But this PERFECT law, under GRACE, gives me full LIBERTY and I should "abide by it". I don't do the things the law says because I HAVE to, but I do it because I WANT to. That can only happen when I keeping falling in love with Jesus over and over and WANT to behave righteous in order to please Him and am eager to "do" the 'rules' and stay in the boundaries (and hence, I become an "effectual" doer - holy from inside out). Stand firm in your freedom (and don't abuse it)!!!! **************** "But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification." --Romans 6:17-19 "...you became slaves OF righteousness." meaning I'm bounded to my righteousness (in Christ) and nothing can take that away. As opposed to "slaves OF sin", (not "sins") which I would've remained bounded to if not for Christ rescuing me. "....so now present your members as slaves TO righteousness," meaning BEHAVE righteously, resulting in (true) holiness (inside to out) which can only be produced from grace, not law. Question to ask perhaps is: present our members TO who? We know what we should present them AS, but who do we present them TO? Paul had already answered that in verses 13 of the same chapter: 13 ...but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members AS instruments of righteousness TO God. I should surrender my members to God, not to the law. That is to say "God, I present my body AS a slave to righteousness TO you - do what you will by Your grace." |
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