Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is the Christian under Law? | Ex 1:1 | Reformer Joe | 12855 | ||
On with the show! You wrote: "God doesn't want a moral people. The Pharisees were very moral. God wants a people who have Christ living through them. This goes beyond morality to miraculous. We don't need to eat from the morality Tree (of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, right and wrong), we need to eat from the Tree of Life, Jesus Christ." I think the "tree" exegesis is a stretch, Bill. Show me that one from Scripture. In any case, God wants righteousness from His people, which includes moral living (John 14:15, 1 Peter 1:14-16; Philippians 2:12-13; 1 Thessalonians 4:7-8 and on and on and on). Secondly, the Pharisees were not moral. They were hypocrites, "whitewashed tombs", "sons of the devil." Their so-called "morality" was a prideful attempt at self-glorification, not a God-honoring righteousness. Jesus repeatedly told them that their devotion to external obedience without a proper grasp of the spirit of the Law was their downfall. The Father places commands upon His followers; so does Christ; all of them are in accordance with the moral law. It is the Holy Spirit who teaches us, reminds us of them, and enables the believer to follow them (Romans 8:7-14). You wrote: "We live out our sanctification. We do nothing to obtain it. Our spirits are 100 percent sanctified at conversion and we have the privelege of seeing that 'worked out' through our souls and bodies as we trust in Christ as our sufficiency and grow in His love. See Titus 2:11 - God's GRACE, not the Law, teaches us to live righteously and godly lives." You, like many Christians today, are confusing justification with sanctification. Justification is totally a work of God; we do nothing to obtain it. Our spirits however, are not 100 percent SANCTIFIED at conversion. There are three dimensions to our sanctification as revealed in Scripture: initial, progressive, and final. Initial sanctification occurs when we become believers, and in that sense we are "set apart" from those who are perishing, for a holy purpose (1 Peter 2:9, 10; Ephesians 2:10). Progessive sanctification is the Lord's work in a believer from conversion until death, in which we are gradually conformed to the image of Christ in this life, bearing spiritual fruit. While it is the Holy Spirit who brings about this change, there is a clear cooperative dimension on our parts, involving our wills and yes, our WORKS (Philippians 2:13). These works are not the basis of our justification, but are a component and result of our sancification. Final justification occurs when the believer enters God's presence, and is made perfect in righteousness. Titus 2:11-12 does not contradict the role that God's moral demands in the Law have in revealing to us what God's will is. As I stated before, the Holy Spirit does not work in a vaccum, but rather utilizes His word (his moral commandments) in our sanctification as well. Lastly, Hebrews 10:14b is most likely rendered best in a progressive sense ("those who are being sanctified", as we see in the NKJV, NIV, and as an alternate rendering in the footnote in the NASB). This is in keeping with the idea of "progressive sanctification" that we see above. We may positionally be seated with Christ, but I think you would agree that that is practically not the case in our lives as we now live them. Bill, Paul himself cites God's moral law as something that should be practiced by the Christian, quoting from the Ten Commandments in Ephesians 6:1-3. If Paul and Christ and John and James all testify to the value of law in holy living of believers, why can't you? --Joe! |
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2 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Bill Mc | 12897 | ||
Dear Joe, thanks for the reply. Please allow me to respond to a couple of things you said: "Our spirits however, are not 100 percent SANCTIFIED at conversion." See Eph 1:4; Eph 5:27; Col 1:22 and especially 1 Cor 1:2 - '...to those who HAVE BEEN (past tense) sanctified in Christ Jesus' 1 Cor 6:11 - '...but you WERE (past tense) washed, but you WERE sanctified, but you WERE justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ...' Heb 10:10 - 'by this will we HAVE BEEN (past tense) sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ...' Heb 10:29 - '...and has reguarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he WAS (past tense) sanctified...' There is only three things you can do with these verses, Steve: 1. Accept them as truth. 2. Reject them as lies. 3. Redefine sanctification and what it is. Redefination is the road most often chosen. Most theologians get around the truth of these verses by saying what the Bible does not say and that is... "There are three dimensions to our sanctification as revealed in Scripture: initial, progressive, and final." Please show me these words used of our sanctification in the New Testament. They are not in there. What you are really saying is that you DON'T BELIEVE that Christ has done it ALL and that, somehow, YOU must do it. So theologians relegate their unbeliefs into "Positional" and "Practical" truths. "Positional" means, as I understand it, that "God said it so, somehow it's true, but it doesn't make sense to me so it's a positional truth." "Practical" means, "Though I know what God says, here is what my experience tells me. So I'll rely on what experience says instead of God and His Word." Please don't take this the wrong way, Steve, but 'hogwash.' Truth is truth. Truth is God's viewpoint and His perspective is reality. Christ has done it ALL. Because people will not except the Scripture as true they decide to put their own spin on it and attempt to invalidate what Christ has done. Or they say, "Well, yes, this is truth, but it only applies to when we get home, in God's presence." Support? "Final justification occurs when the believer enters God's presence, and is made perfect in righteousness." Let me ask you, child of God, what is it about the physical death of your body that would make you justified in spirit, soul, or body before a holy God? What is it about being 'in God's presence' that would justify you? What impact would the death of your body have upon you being righteous, holy and blameless before God? I believe that Christ alone and His work justifies me before a holy God. The state of my body is inconsequential. If a holy God can now dwell in me, it is ONLY because He has already made me holy. Paul says that the temple of God is holy and THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE. Not 'what you will be.' "We may positionally be seated with Christ, but I think you would agree that that is practically not the case in our lives as we now live them." I don't agree, brother. Again, you need to resort to positional and pratical truths because you will not accept what God says as TRUTH. I am spiritually (in God's true, eternal, outside-of-time realm) seated with Christ (Eph 2:6) though my physical body is seated in a chair typing this note. Just as I was crucified, raised, and seated with Christ spiritually 2000 years ago. In this dimension called time, I get the wonderful experience of 'seeing' what I know to be truth by faith 'worked out' in my life. We live godly lives, brother, because Christ lives in us. If Babe Ruth's spirit came inside you, would you want to take up ballet? What would you want to do if Babe Ruth's spirit dwelt in you? Well, we have Christ's Spirit, the Holy Spirit, living inside of us. He causes me to live a holy life, not so I WILL BE holy, but because, I AM HOLY. But it is not because of what I do or don't do. It is because, through Christ, I have become a NEW CREATION, created in righteousness. Do I do good works? Yes. But not to affect my status before God. I do them because OF my status before God. "God wants righteousness from His people." No, brother, God wants His people to accept and believe in the righteousness that comes FROM God. The Jews sought to establish THEIR OWN righteousness through keeping the Law. And the Pharisees would agree 100 percent with your statement and tell you exactly what that should look like. So, Steve, are you going to believe what God says about your sanctification, exercise faith and accept it, or are you going to cling to your nice little 'positional' and 'practical' truths? The truth is there, dear brother. As the Keeper of the Holy Grail said, "Choose wisely..." In Christ, Bill Mc |
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3 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Searcher56 | 12905 | ||
Bill Mc, Are you addressing me in a ltter to Joe? On santification - I believe we have been, continue to be and will be in the end. 100 percent from our conversion. Both postionally and practically. Steve |
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