Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Aliehs | 22515 | ||
Hi Hank, the question I was answering from Joe was: "Please show me ONE God-honoring work that we can do which is not in keeping with God's moral law." and I gave the example that the Pharisees were all doing God-honoring work which are in keeping of God's moral law. Meaning, ACTION wise, they did it. But their hearts are not in God at all. Likewise, we can ALL do God-honoring work which are in keeping of God's moral law, but if are hearts are not in doing it out of love for God, but instead doing it out of "religion", then we've missed the mark too. And about James (I write this to Joe too) - did I say that his words are NOT TRUE??? No, I did not. What I was trying to say is that he's not as strong a preacher on grace as Paul is - it is not to say that his understanding about it is out of line! Even in the church today, we have different preachers with different revelations in different areas. One might be good at preaching in the area of grace but not in the area of the end times (which is not to say he DOESN'T understand end times) and vice-versa. Yet BOTH revelations are from God! So with Paul and James, we first have to have a strong understanding of grace (from Paul) before we can understand how to work (from James). In all of Paul's letters, it ALWAYS starts with building the understanding of grace BEFORE he moves on to how we should really work (under grace). And no wonder that Paul's letters are first before James even though James wrote his first... . I'm sure God wants us to understand our FULL righteous standing in Christ first in order to know how we should work. Not through self-effort, but through Spirit-effort. We cannot change ourselves through the power of our will, but we can use our will power to make a decision to set aside time to seek God. |
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2 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Reformer Joe | 22610 | ||
You wrote: "and I gave the example that the Pharisees were all doing God-honoring work which are in keeping of God's moral law." The Pharisees were working all right, but it certainly not God-honoring work, for the very reason you stated: their hearts were corrupt. Let's see what God the Son had to say about how the Pharisees' work honored Him: "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." --John 8:44 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness." --Matthew 23:27 "And He said to them, 'Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: "THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME."'" --Mark 7:6 The Pharisees did not honor God at all with their works. It is not because they worked that they were condemned, but because of the fact that their motives behind their actions were not of faith and that they were self-seeking hypocrites blind to their own unrighteousness. Their works disgusted God, just as much as the "altruistic" and "humanitarian" works of atheists just incur greater wrath because they are done to bring glory to man and not Him. That's the problem with your Scofield/Ryrie view of the Bible. You are right to condemn legalistic self-righteousness. However, you go too far to the other extreme where any call of God for His people to actually DO something is placed in the category of "not for us." "Be like Jesus" does not mean rejecting God's moral law, for Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly in thought, word, and deed. Even the greatest commandment tells us we are to love the Lord our God with all our STRENGTH. You will take Paul's grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone and swallow it whole, as well you should. You are more than happy to embrace Philippians 2:13, but going back a verse means that we would have to acknowledge our own God-aided participation in the process of sanctification. In a previous post you even said something to me along the lines of "work out your own salvation if you want," as if that were unscriptural! They are put there, TOGETHER, for a reason. Christians are characterized by their works. The thing that troubles me the most about your view is that you have to basically take virtually EVERYTHING Jesus said and stamp a label of "Old Testament" on it to get those troublesome, cost-of-discipleship chapters in all four gospels. Doesn't it bother you in the slightest that Ryrie-esque dispensationalists completely disregard so many of the very words that our Lord and Savior spoke? The gospel is the same from Genesis 3 to revelation. Your view requires you diminishing the importance of James, Hebrews, 1 John, 1 and 2 Peter, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John in favor of half of the prison epistles and part of Romans. And forget about the Old Testament. Too much law for a "New Testament believer" to stomach. In short, you have abandoned legalism and moved to the other, equally-wrong extreme of antinomianism. During this exchange I have seen you reinterpret clear Scripture passages to fit your view (such as 1 Peter 1:14-16) and try to paint me as a legalist because I have the audacity to claim that the Christian life depicted in the Bible is one of costly discipleship rather than easy-street "resting in Jesus." This is precisely why I abandoned the theology you embrace years ago; you simply have to ignore or do too much damage to God's Holy Word to maintain it. Justification is a free gift of God's grace; sanctification is also wholly a work of God's grace. It is not a contradiction, however, to say that the Christian life, properly lived, is WORK. --Joe! |
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3 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Aliehs | 22866 | ||
Hi Joe, I didn't mean for this to become such a debate. I appreciate you sharing with me all your points indeed, and yes, I will go deeper into the word to understand the true meaning of righteousness and what is expected from God. I'll not discuss this with you anymore as I think it has got more than it's fair share of discussion here :o). I will however, leave this thread with the following: [Kings Site on the Net] SCRIPTURE THOUGHT Scripture Thought for the Day Month 11 Thought 13 of 25 Everyone Who Practices Righteousness Is Born Of Him! 1 John 2 Let Truth Abide in You 24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life. 26These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. The Children of God 28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. Christian truth is fixed and unalterable. If we stay faithful to the truth, we continue to experience intimate communion with God and Christ and persevere to eternal life. John is not denying the importance of gifted teachers in the church but indicates that neither those teachers nor those believers are dependent on human wisdom or the opinions of men for the truth. God's Holy Spirit guards and guides the truth believer into all the truth. Whenever John refers to abiding, he is referring to persevering in the faith of salvation which is evidence of being a true believer. The hope of Christ's return produces the effect of continual abiding in every true believer as we long for the glorious future prepared for us. Abiding signifies a permanent remaining in Christ and guarantees the believer's hope. Those who truly abide, continue in the faith and in fellowship with the saints. Salvation is eternal because of the Lord's side--He holds us and because of our side--we persevere in faith and obedience. In the case of salvation, God sovereignly saves but not apart from personal faith from the one He saves. In the case of sanctification, God conforms us to His Son but not apart from obedience. The hope of Christ's return not only sustains faith but makes righteousness a habit. Those truly born again as God's children have their heavenly Father's righteous nature. As a result, they will display characteristics of God's righteousness. John looks from effect (righteous behavior) to cause (being truly born again) to affirm that righteous living is the proof of being born again. Time to Think: If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him! Bless you, Joe. You're a dear brother in Christ :o). |
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