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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Aliehs | 22123 | ||
(post continued from the previous post).... We have to surrender completely to the Holy Spirit and the more we give in to Him, the more He can work in us, and the more we become like Jesus in practice and the more our new nature reflects HIS nature. Mirror-image. We will manifest the fruits of the Spirit. Cannot be done through the law, can be done through the blood. Holiness / righteousness is not outward, it's inward. Work/law is from outward to inward, holiness / righteousness is inward to outward (from our hearts), and grace establishes our hearts, not law. 2 Thessalonians 2: "16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work." You said: "Take a look at John in Revelation 1 to see how our "righteous" selves react in the presence of the glorified Christ." You mean "fall at His feet as though dead"? I'm sure my present body which is still corruptible cannot yet stand in the holiness of God so yes, I do believe I'll fall. Does that mean I'm not righteous? No, I am righteous - but my body is still not yet transformed to the glorious one. John’s wasn’t. THAT's why he fell, that’s why I'll fall at His feet. But once I get my new body, the only reason I'll fall at His feet will be to worship Him and be in awe of him because my new body will by then be able to stand in His holiness. Finally, as for your statements: "By mocking the historic Christian views of positional righteousness vs. practical righteousness...... . But your view, which gained popularity in the 20th century, is probably the right one. After all, the first 1900 years of Christian thought probably didn't have the same wisdom that you apparently possess..." First of all, that last sentence of yours is not going to have that sarcastic effect you were trying to get on me. Why? Because for MANY years down in history, the church had managed to make people think the world was flat even though the bible does mention about it being a "circle". Who is more reliable regarding truths? The church or the bible? I'll stick to my bible with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Second of all, I admit that I'm not familiar with what the Reformers did in history, so I'm sure they've done a lot of good things. However, I certainly do not agree with their views of positional righteousness vs. practical righteousness. Just because it's a view rooted deep in history does not mean that it's growing the right tree. The "first 1900 years of Christian thought" is not as important as the thought of the bible - and the view which you don't agree with and "which gained (so-called) popularity in the 20th century," actually agrees consistently to what Paul demonstrated in his letters to the churches. In fact, it agrees consistently with the teachings of Jesus too. Grace can never mix with law, just as water can never mix with oil. Not even a bit of each. If we want true transformation, we have to let God do it. Not only will it then be effortless on our part, but it will also be true and totally "made in Heaven". Philippians 1 "5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6 being confident of this, He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." THAT short passage alone, summarises the gist of Philippians 3:8-14 which Paul wrote in detail after what he said in Philippians chapter 1. Would be strange, if he should contradict himself in the same letter. Joe, I know that your views about "working our way to attain righteousness in nature and practice through the law" means well. But once we bring the law in, self comes in too. They both come together. The old covenant is ALL about us doing things for God. In the new covenant, it's ALL about Christ doing things for us. Do we TRY, or do we TRUST? Do we STRIVE, or do we REST? Let's not steal Christ's glory by getting ourselves involved in His work in us. The works of Christ was a "stumbling block" to the people practised in the law (Pharisees) because everything which comes by grace from Christ became "too easy" to attain. Don't let the works of Christ in us be a stumbling block to you - we'll enjoy it more when we allow Him to work instead of making ourselves work our transformation. The devil KNOWS it's that EASY for us, who are children of God, to enjoy our new heritage by trusting and relying TOTALLY on God's grace, and he'll do his best to make us go back under law even though we preach Jesus Christ. The best channel for him to do that, is not through the world, but through the church. But GOD will ensure that His truth (which sets people free TOTALLY) breaks through the lies. (post continued in the following post).... |
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2 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Reformer Joe | 22148 | ||
You wrote: "But once we bring the law in, self comes in too" This is simply false. So King David, writing his love song to the Law in Psalm 119, is bringing self into it? You have a completely wrong understanding of the Law if you think that obedience to God's law by necessity means effort of the unaided self: "because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God." --Romans 8:7,8 Who subjects himself to the law of God? Not the mind set on the flesh. Who pleases God? Not those in the flesh. Therefore, the one who obeys God's law and pleases him are those who are walking by the Spirit. You wrote: "The old covenant is ALL about us doing things for God. In the new covenant, it's ALL about Christ doing things for us." NO NO NO! God does all things ultimately for His glory, including saving His elect. I want you to do a New Testament search over on the right-hand side of this page and type in the words "for sake" and see how much He has done and we are to do for God's sake or Christ's sake. It is this man-centered "gospel" which is poisoning the church today. You wrote: "we'll enjoy it more when we allow Him to work instead of making ourselves work our transformation." Letting go and letting God? That isn't Paul's point of view. We do indeed work as God enables us to work for His glory: "So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORK OUT your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, BOTH TO WILL AND TO WORK for His good pleasure." --Philippians 2:12-13 "Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to HIS OWN LABOR." --1 Corinthians 3:8 "For it is for this we LABOR and STRIVE, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers." --1 Timothy 4:10 "BE DILIGENT to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth." --2 Timothy 2:15 "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, EQUIPPED FOR EVERY GOOD WORK." --2 Timothy 3:16-17 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand SO THAT WE WOULD WALK IN THEM." --Ephesians 2:10 Other passages speak of the same idea: "Therefore let us BE DILIGENT to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience." --Hebrews 4:11 Bottom line: it is God who works in us and through us, but also we work and strive and labor alongside him, by the power of His Holy Spirit. Notice in all these passages who is doing the walking and laboring and striving and working. We are. Under our own power? Absolutely not, but the true Christian walk is not a cake walk. Relying totally on God grace does not mean that we do nothing. God-honoring works are part-and-parcel of every true believer's life: "But someone may well say, 'You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.' You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?" --James 2:18-20 --Joe! |
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