Results 1 - 2 of 2
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What is your identity in Christ? | Ex 1:1 | Bill Mc | 12929 | ||
Well said, Joe. Untrue, but well said. The church fathers which you so highly regard "rested" their cases upon Sola Scriptura. As you know, Martin Luther was converted due to the fact that a man is justified by faith alone in Jesus Christ, and not works (keeping the Law). But, brother, since we are on the subject, let's look at a quote from Spurgeon: "According to this gracious covenant, the Lord treats His people as if they had never sinned. Practically, He forgets all their trespasses. Sins of all kinds He treats as if they had never been; as if they were quite erased from His memory. O miracle of grace! God here does that which is certain aspects is impossible to Him. His mercy works miracles which far transcends all other miracles. Our God ignores our sin now that the sacrifice of Jesus has ratified the covenant. We may rejoice in Him without fear that He will be provoked to anger against us because of our iniquities. See! He puts us among the children ; He accepts us as righteous; He takes delight in us as if we were perfectly holy. He even puts us in places of trust; makes us guardians of His honor, trustees of the crown jewels, stewards of the gospel. He counts us worthy, and gives us a ministry; this is the highest and most special proof that He does not remember our sins. Even when we forgive an enemy, we are very slow to trust him; we judge it to be imprudent to do so. But the Lord forgets our sins, and treats us as if we had never erred. O my soul, what a promise is this! Believe it and be happy. - Charles H. Spurgeon Even Spurgeon believed in a PRACTICAL, not positional forgiveness. He said that God ignores our sin now the the new covenant was ratified. Maybe Spurgeon's NT was thinner than yours... I still feel that you misunderstand my position. Let me try, one more time, to clarify it. At salvation, conversion, the new birth, we are MADE, in our spirits (our identities), holy, righteous, acceptable, saints, because of our exchange with Christ. He became sin for us, we become the righteousness OF God (not our own) in Christ. We now, as Christians, get to live out through our souls and bodies what we have been made spiritually (you would probably call this practical sanctification). This 'living out' is a process of having our souls (minds, wills, emotions) renewed through Scripture and the Holy Spirit to conform us outwardly to the image of Christ that we have already been made inwardly in our spirits. Brother, you have tried to redefine every Scripture I have mentioned into practical and positional qualifications. So you are dismissing them out of hand. You're implying that, "Yes, God sees me as positionally righteousness but that's not what I really am." Further quoting of Scripture is pointless if you don't believe them anyway. And, Joe, if you're going to redefine the Scriptures, then further discussion is, unfortunately, unprofitable for us both. But, I think no less of you. You know your Scriptures. I admire that. Unfortunately, I confess, I don't know very many. Though I have been a Christian for 30 years, most of that time has been spent listening to others interpret it for me instead of relying on the Holy Spirit and other Scripture to reveal it to me. So, practically (hey, I used that word), I have a way to go. So, I may be ignorant but arrogant? Anyway, I guess until I'm better equipped, I'll not debate this particular issue with you, brother. In the meantime, I'll search my thinner NT for where God describes His church as a fat, lazy, impotent element of soceity. Interesting view...maybe in Revelation cahpters 2 and 3... In Christ, Bill Mc |
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2 | What is your identity in Christ? | Ex 1:1 | Reformer Joe | 12984 | ||
Bill: I agree with Spurgeon completely here. However, he is speaking of forgiveness. That is justification, not sanctification. Undoubtedly, we are justified by God's grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Works play no part of our justification. My justification is complete. However, in certain senses my sanctification is not. When I was justified at conversion, I was also "set apart" for SERVICE to God. Salvation is not and end in itself, but rather God's means of glorifying Himself both in our redemption from sin, but also in the fruit that we will bear. Works are not the basis of our justification, but they very much play a part in our sanctification. Note what I am saying here: we are not saved BY our works, but we are saved UNTO good works which glorify God. You may continue to dismiss the tri-partite view of sanctification I and most believers in church history have held, but the fact is that sanctification is presented in Scripture in one sense as a past event, in another as an ongoing event, and in yet another as a future, completed event. I have already cited many verses which point to sanctification as a goal of the Christian life, not merely a "done deal" like our justification. Again, how do you explain those verses in light of your view that sanctification is complete in every sense? Justification and sanctification are not the same thing. My salvation is assured when I was justified, and I was "set apart" when i was sanctified, but God gave me the Spirit to enable me to submit to God's law (not my words, but His -- Romans 8:7) and to be transformed by the renewing of my mind (Romans 12:2 -- our transformation is not yet complete). All of this is designed to glorify Him, to accomplish His purposes. My salvation has benefits for me, but it is only a means to God being glorified in his mercy and grace (1 Peter 2:10). The whole ball of wax is about Him, not me. I am God's workmanship (Ephesians 2:10), created in Christ Jesus for GOOD WORKS which are in keeping with his law. Every time we see the gospel mentioned and the blessings we have received, the passage continues to define a larger purpose for why we were chosen and regenerated. The will of God is that we live a holy life which testifies to the excellencies of God and silences the ignorant talk of foolish men (1 Peter 2:15). This comes from following God's moral law, which among other places is demonstrated in the Ten Commandments. We are free from the curse that comes from our non-compliance with the law, because Christ has fulfilled it completely for us. God's moral guidelines that are reflected both within and outside the Mosaic Law still are moral guidelines for us. If you ignore these guidelines, saying they are not applicable to the believer, what exactly are the Scriptures that the Holy Spirit uses in your life "to conform us outwardly to the image of Christ"? Any commandment from God forms part of His moral Law, and it is from His commandments that we have a standard on what righteous living is. This is what is known as the law/gospel distinction. God's law shows us what is good and what the Lord requires of us. From the gospel do not come guidelines for obedience to Christ, but rather grace and mercy despite our rebellion against God and His perfect law, as well as the power of the Holy Spirit for us to honor and glorify Him by following His moral law. Incidentally, for Spurgeon's take on the uses of law in the life of the believer, you can read some of his sermons online. These two in particular address the issue in question: www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0128.htm www.spurgeon.org/sermons/3418.htm Don't dismiss what we can learn from the heroes of the faith. They are certainly not infallible (and I myself disagree with some of what they have to say, just as they disagree with each other on some points), but one should weigh seriously what they have to show us from the Word before a summary dismissal is made in favor of "just God, me, and the Bible!" Thanks for your comments --Joe! |
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