Results 1 - 2 of 2
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 204974 | ||
Hello Tamara, Do I believe in soul sleep? Well, I wouldn't call it soul sleep. Usually the only ones who call it that are the ones who don't believe in it. I call it death. I don't get confused about "sleep" because of it being an idiom for death either. You're point on that is right, it was a euphemism. However, I believe that when you die, you ACTUALLY die, not just your body. You mention 2 Cor 5:8 and Phil 1:23. These are commonly taken to mean that once you leave the body you are present with the Lord. You also say that I have to read into it soul sleep. The problem with that is we (you, me, pretty much everyone) reads into Scripture whatever their theology is anyway. Some admit to this, others deny it, but we all do it, even though it is unintentional. Let me give you a little example. Rom 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Well, here we usually read into this verse that "death" means separation from God or hell. We all read into plenty of verses, we should just try to do this as little as possible, but we will all still do it. Now, you say that Paul was not meaning a 2000 year gap. You might be right. I don't have all the answers, that is for sure. However, if Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven, then how is it that we go to be with Him upon our death if no man has ascended to heaven (John 3:13, Acts 2:34 - David). That being said, when one dies then for them it is instantaneous. They don't know they are dead. It is sort of like anesthesia. You close your eyes and when you open them you are in the afterlife. You also mention that "Paul does not have any gap of time in mind here or he would have said so". Paul says neither and is quiet on the matter. Job says there is a gap of time (Job 14:7-17). It is definitely related as a time between death and resurrection. Anyway, I am rambling on. Soul sleep (or death as I call it) is really a minor point to me. It has much larger implications, but soul sleep is not too important really. But one more thing, if death is really the result of our sin. If that was really part of the curse God placed on Adam and Eve. Then what kind of curse is it if we don't really die? We just live on forever somewhere else right? You see, we still believe the very first lie don't we. "Ye shall not surely die: " (Gen 3:4). Take it for what you will. To avoid a debate I will let you have the last post. If you would like to discuss each other's points for more consideration you can email me at jamison2u@gmail.com jamison |
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2 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | Tamara Brewington | 205109 | ||
2nd continuation, Tamara Who was the first man to go to heaven? Jesus. When did he go? John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" Acts 1:3,10 To these present He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God. And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who was been taken, will come up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him to into heaven." Jesus never ascended up to heaven until 40 days passed after He rose on the third day. Jesus was the first man to go to heaven When did the inhabitants of the Paradise compartment of Hades who are all the OT saints and all the saints who believed in Jesus and died before He did, and the criminal, go to heaven? Ephesians 4:8 Therefore it says, "When He ascended on high; He led captive a host of captives, and He gave gifts to men." This is a quote from Psalm 68:18 The rest of the verse goes Even among the rebellious also, that the Lord God may dwell there. The context is about unity in the Spirit in the baptism of Jesus, and the gifts according to the measure of Christ's gift. Verse 8 is about the gifts in the body according to the measure of Christ's gift. But, now what is the measure of Christ's gift? The measure of Christ's gift is what He has accomplished by entering the holy of holies, Therefore it says, "When He ascended on high". "He led captive His captives.", all those in that compartment of Hades where the OT saints were, where the criminal was, where everyone who was a saint who died while Jesus was a live, was led out of that compartment and Jesus paraded them to the whole universe and showed off His captives to the host of heaven while He led them to heaven, having made a way into the veil, into the holy of holies. Hebrews 9:11,12 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. When Jesus ascended on high leading captive His captives He led them into the holy of holies having obtained the redemption of thier souls. It was not until Jesus ascended to heaven that heaven became open to men, being separated from God by a wall of sin, they were ushered right into the presence of the holy Father God by the blood of Jesus Christ. This is why Paul was then able to say; II Corinthians 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be home with the Lord. Jesus opened up the door to heaven and Paul was talking about going in and being present with Jesus. Paul is not talking about a gap of time either, he is talking about right away. Philippians 1:23 But I am hard pressed from both directions, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better. Paul was desring to depart and go straight to Jesus. more to come, Tamara |
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