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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 204974 | ||
Hello Tamara, Do I believe in soul sleep? Well, I wouldn't call it soul sleep. Usually the only ones who call it that are the ones who don't believe in it. I call it death. I don't get confused about "sleep" because of it being an idiom for death either. You're point on that is right, it was a euphemism. However, I believe that when you die, you ACTUALLY die, not just your body. You mention 2 Cor 5:8 and Phil 1:23. These are commonly taken to mean that once you leave the body you are present with the Lord. You also say that I have to read into it soul sleep. The problem with that is we (you, me, pretty much everyone) reads into Scripture whatever their theology is anyway. Some admit to this, others deny it, but we all do it, even though it is unintentional. Let me give you a little example. Rom 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Well, here we usually read into this verse that "death" means separation from God or hell. We all read into plenty of verses, we should just try to do this as little as possible, but we will all still do it. Now, you say that Paul was not meaning a 2000 year gap. You might be right. I don't have all the answers, that is for sure. However, if Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven, then how is it that we go to be with Him upon our death if no man has ascended to heaven (John 3:13, Acts 2:34 - David). That being said, when one dies then for them it is instantaneous. They don't know they are dead. It is sort of like anesthesia. You close your eyes and when you open them you are in the afterlife. You also mention that "Paul does not have any gap of time in mind here or he would have said so". Paul says neither and is quiet on the matter. Job says there is a gap of time (Job 14:7-17). It is definitely related as a time between death and resurrection. Anyway, I am rambling on. Soul sleep (or death as I call it) is really a minor point to me. It has much larger implications, but soul sleep is not too important really. But one more thing, if death is really the result of our sin. If that was really part of the curse God placed on Adam and Eve. Then what kind of curse is it if we don't really die? We just live on forever somewhere else right? You see, we still believe the very first lie don't we. "Ye shall not surely die: " (Gen 3:4). Take it for what you will. To avoid a debate I will let you have the last post. If you would like to discuss each other's points for more consideration you can email me at jamison2u@gmail.com jamison |
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2 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | Tamara Brewington | 205108 | ||
continuation, Tamara Luke 16:19-26 the story of the beggar Lazarus and the rich sinner who ignored him, passing him by as he sat begging for food at the rich sinners gate. :22 Now the poor man died and was carried away to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man aslo died and was buried. In hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom First point; they both died and were both wide awake, having never fallen asleep accourding to Jesus. Second point; Jesus as God knew better than Solomon in all his wisdom and Job in his misery what actually occurs after death. This is a progression of revelation about death and what happens to one in the Bible, that is if we are going to say that both Solomon and Job had as their intent to say something about the state of folks in death... So of you are going to say that Solomon and Job are really saying something about the state of death, you have to recognize that Jesus as God, who has more authority than they do, is now revealing more about the state of death as progressive revelation. Luke 16:24,25 And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in the water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame'. But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus did bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony'. According to Jesus as God, the rich man was awake and suffering in the torment of flames and was thirsty for even a drop of water. According to Jesus as God, Abraham was awake and answering the rich man's request with a proclaimation of judgment. Luke 16: And besides all this, between us there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us. According to Jesus both dead men were in one single place, Hades (verse 23), with two compartments, one was hell the other had to be a type of paradise, separated by an uncrossable chasm. This has to be true because Jesus says in John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven; but He who descended from Heaven; the Son of Man. More about this later, it is important in determing the progression of what Jesus revealed about death in the NT. Luke 23:40,42,43 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?" And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in your kingdom!" And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in paradise." The context of this passage in light of subsequent passages drives the meaning in this passage because Jesus was in the grave for three days and did not go up to Paradise until He ascended more than some 40 days later. The context of the passage is that Jesus is being crucified and is on His way to His kingdom in that act. Jesus is about to die and enter into the process of entering His kingdom, the veil of the temple is about to split in two, indicating that Jesus has made a way through to the holy of holies by His death, has entered into His kingdom. When Jesus says, today you shall be with Me in Paradise He is not talking about time, He is talking today He is about to die and go about entering His kingdom and usher the way clear into Paradise for the criminal. We have to look to the reason why Jesus was saying what He was saying to see the true context of those verses. more to come, Tamara |
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