Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Is there middle ground? | Romans | Morant61 | 21739 | ||
Greetings Charis! I have to humbly disagree on two counts! First of all, option 3 isn't really the way I would phrase it in a formal debate. I was simply trying to highlight that either God desires all to be saved or He desires only some to be saved. This is the fundamental difference between the two systems of thought. Everyone keeps saying that there must be a middle ground, but no one has articulated what that middle ground could possible be! ;-) If you have an insight into this, I would love to hear it! 2) Secondly, I don't believe that I have ever explained away or ignored any verse! I always strive to be contextual in my understanding. And, I don't think in any of my debates that I have ever ducked a verse. I'm really not trying to get another debate going, I was just sincerely curious as to what people consider this middle ground to be. So far, no one has been able to define it. Personally, I just don't see any possible middle ground - either God elects individuals unconditionally to salvation or He doesn't. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Is there middle ground? | Romans | charis | 21741 | ||
Dear Tim, Greetings and peace to you in Jesus' name! Count 1) This would be basing everything on the assumption that we on earth can fully know the mind if God. I do not! I simply know that the Bible has given MEN ample ammunition to disagree with one another about the details of the sovereignty of God. But God cannot contradict Himself, and the Bible is God's Word to us. We can (and HAVE!) debate(d) this 'formally' (code for 'humanly') until we are all blue or livid. But we cannot KNOW the extent of His sovereignty, or more correctly, the amount that He chooses to orchestrate His creation. Even the staunchest Calvinist (usually :-)) would not state that the Lord manipulates every action, every scratch of the head. Therefore, they 'stand in the middle.' Even the staunchest Arminian would not deny that God is *ultimately* in charge of His creation. They, too, 'stand in the middle.' The argument seems (IMHO) to be about the *degree* of sovereign intervention towards salvation, yet each wants to state their case as an *absolute.* I, personally, do not have a 'hotline to God" that would allow me to know, unequivocally, God's mind on who He will save. After reading many, many statements from those that claim to know this very thing, my conclusion is, "You don't know, either!" (I don't mean you, personally, brother :-)) We are not privy to this knowledge, and the polarist approach (one or the other, period!) does not serve God's purposes. Friend, I do not claim to *know* the 'middle ground,' but I think that trusting God in this thing is more desirable than endless argument. My answer? The 'middle ground' is trusting God, and obeying His commandments for life, in the Holy Spirit. Trusting God implies that He is sovereign. Obedience implies that He sets two paths before us, and desires that we choose life. Both are (equally) possible in the Holy Spirit, but impossible though human endeavor. Count 2) Please know that I was not 'accosting' you personally. Indeed, I have seen a great deal of balance in your posts! However, my friend, as you pointed out yourself, you 'merely' *strive* to be contextual, which is different from accomplishment. No one is perfectly contextual or perfectly balanced. I, too, *strive* to know God! Though I am thought to be 'over-merciful' at times, I think it preferable to the alternative, 'over-legalistic.' IMNSHO :-) Never fear! I don't want to debate this 'dead horse' either. :-) I humbly give my definition. In Christ Jesus, charis |
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3 | No middle ground? | Romans | FlyFisher | 21751 | ||
I tried to start at the begining of all this to get up to speed on the topic and soon got tired of it. Sounded like the what Jews after the death of Christ must have sounded. "He must be the messsiah, look at all of the messianic prophesies he has fulfilled about coming as a servent, as a lamb to the slaughter!" "If he is the messiah, he would fulfill all of the messianic prophesies of coming in POWER and setting up the kingdom, he would have defeated the romans and we would have peace on earth!" Gee! Both groups used the word of God, both believed in and were looking for the messiah. Which side was right and which side was wrong? Both couldn't have been right because both views contradict the other. |
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4 | No middle ground? | Romans | charis | 21755 | ||
Dear FlyFisher, Greetings in the name of Jesus! While I agree that this thread is tiresome, I disagree with your conclusion. You are saying that men have taken opposing views on a subject, therefore one must be right, and the other must be wrong. Again, this is assuming that man can be right. :-) Show me THAT in the Bible. To all my forum friends: Where are we commanded to know the details and intricacies of God's mind and man's heart? Where are we commanded to codify His ways, His depths? Where are you commanded to oppose your brother on an issue that rests solely in God's hands? I can only see some kind of self-gratification in this whole thing. Have fun! I'm done (maybe :-)) In Christ Jesus, charis |
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5 | No middle ground? | Romans | FlyFisher | 21824 | ||
Thank for taking the time to read and answer my thoughts charis. I don't think either group is wrong. I just think they are not seeing the whole picture. Hind sight is 20-20. Middle ground may not be the right terms to be useing here. "Another point of view" may be better. After Christ comes to take us home maybe we'll be able to see the whole argument with hind sight and realize how foolish it was. Differing beliefs on these minor things allow the differant parts of the body to work differantly, don't you think? Just as a hand works differantly than a ear does. Our unity in love is what sets us apart form the world. Man is pretty much only right when he believes there is a God, he has sinned against this God, and he needs to be made right in God's sight, and that only comes by grace, though Christ our Lord. Maranatha! flyfisher |
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