Results 1 - 6 of 6
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | Swordman007 | 68317 | ||
Dear friends, please understand that I am not a Mormon. I am a Southern Baptist. Polygamy existed as a foundational marriage structure LONG before Mormonism was ever known on this planet. It is interesting that many will jump onto the bandwagon of condemnation when the issue of polygamy is brought up. Many say that God's Law prohibited a man from having more than one wife, and yet they say this at the expense of ignoring the fact that God's Law made governing provision for a man to have more than one wife in Deut, 21:15. Lev. 18:18 is not in any way a prohibition against a man having more than one wife. God Himself gave king David five of his 18 wives as is revealed in 2 Sam. 12:8. Is God therefore sinning against His own moral absolutes? Also, the use of the verses dealing with a man multiplying wives to himself is also a common blunder made by many. The same context deals with a man multiplying horses and chariots to himself. Are we then to assume that it is wrong for a man to own more than one horse, or more than one car (chariot)? Not so. The idea of multiplying women, horses and chariots had to do with pride in one's wealth. If one multiplies these things (or anything else for that matter) as a form of pride in one's social "status", then he has done so for the wrong reason. The patriarchs fell not because they had more than one wife, but because they sinned. If having more than one wife were a sin, then one would have to accuse God Himself of sin, especially when He provided imagry of His being a polygamist Himself when He called Judah and Israel His "wives". God would certainly not associate Himself with that which He considered to be sin, and He certainly would not have given king David several of his already multiple wives. Where it is true that God gave Adam only one wife, this is an argument with no merit when applying it with such broad meaning that stretches it FAR beyond the intent within Genesis. God also gave Adam a Garden to tend, but He did not give the rest of us a Garden. Have we been cheated? Not at all. God aldo gave Elisha power that He did not give to Abraham. Does that mean that Abraham was cheated because he was not given the same power. It is my hope that the many falacies in the reasoning presented against polygamy can teach us all to be more succinct and powerful in our reasoning and presentation. Then we move on to Titus and Timothy. Suppose that we leave the popular translation intact. The prohibition is only against bishops (overseers) and deacons from having more than one wife, not the laity. Translating the Greek word (mia) as "one" is actually inconsistent with the context of these verses. It makes more sense to translate (mia) as "first" wife, just as the Greek Lexicons show us. This gives greater consistency to Paul's instructions. It makes far better sense to say that a bishop and a deacon should STILL be married to his first wife, therefore not having been divorced since divorce is a poor example to the Church, and VERY anti-family. To think that Paul would suddenly throw in the issue of plural wives out of nowhere is beyond textual consistency and introduces incontinuity. Many people try to speak authoritatively by declaring that God intended there to be only one man and one woman in marriage, but this is a declaration with no real teeth. It denies God's clear teaching on this issue. It rests itself upon the grounds of misinterpretation and transliteration of the root texts from which our Bibles were translated. Yes, God has many "brides". If we are the "bride" of Christ, that "bride" is still composed of MANY individuals. The imagry is consistent. Several wives are joined togeher into one family unit through a common husband, just as we are joined together into one body through a common Lord. If God did not look favorably upon polygamy, then He certainly did a good job of saying absolutely nothing against it to all the prophets and patriarchs who practiced it across more than 1000 years. Does this sound absurd? It is my thought that we would do better to abstain from pitting God's word against itself and read it for what it says. I can reasonably take to task any who add meaning into key verses that clearly is not there. Any of us can weave a doctrinal tapestry by pulling verses out of context. The REAL challenge is keeping that tapestry from unraveling when pulling on the many wild threads hanging loose. | ||||||
2 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | retxar | 68385 | ||
God's designed the family to work under the principles He established way back in Gen 2. Jesus confirmed this principle as being correct in Mat 19:4-8. The family was to consist of one husband/father and one wife/mother from the beginning. Consequences of going with our plan instead of God's plan in any thing always results in problems that could have been avoided. Abraham, David, Solomon, and other great men of God did not avoid the ploblems that arose by ignoring God's principles, we invite the same when we ignore God's guidelines. God can, has, and does, work thru all situations, but if we work against God's principles, we better know it is not for the better, but for the worst. retxar |
||||||
3 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | Swordman007 | 68437 | ||
This is an interesting note. If I may interject here, I would like to point out that Jesus never said anything about the number of wives a man may have, nor did He remotely make any specific statement highlighting the number of wives Adam had been given. You appear to be adding meaning that simply is not there. What HE DID address in the passages you mentioned is the issue of divorce when referring to Genesis. Therefore Jesus confimred not one ounce of what you are laying claim. If you have a legitimate reference, then I would like to see it so that I can study it in more detail. The only consequences we are told about where a plurality of wives is directly mentioned as the problem is Jacob and Solomon. Jacob was in violation of God's Law by having married two sisters. This is expressly forbidden. Solomon on the other hand multiplied wives to himself, which is also forbidden, but his REAL problem was in letting a few of them draw him away into idolatry. This could have happened to him even if he had only one wife, so this air castle is again dispersed into the winds of reality. Jacob's greatest problems were actually rooted in his character. He was a deceiver. That is the meaning of his name, after all. So, the overly general declaration that having a plurality of wives was to problem of the men you mentioned is really quite baseless from what I see in your message. It is much too easy to speak in general terms without any real substance to back it. David's sins were the sins of adultery and murder. His motivation had nothing to do with the wives he already had. If you have evidence to the contrary, then I would welcome it for further study. As for Abraham, well, this one completely escapes me. It is so general that there is nothing whatsoever to go by in your statement. It was Sarah who gave Hagar to Abraham to wife, and she did so because of a lack of faith in God's promise. It was Sarah who had a problem with Hagar, not Abraham. Also, Abraham took two more wives after Sarah died, and there is no mention of his having further problems because of his plural wives, so again I ask for further clarification without speaking in such general terms. You also spoke of "principal". Well, what you see as being a "principal" is actually nothing but historical fact. As I had said before, if you can show me any express declaration from the Lord with His pointing to Adma's having been given only one wife to be a "principal" for all mankind, then I would like to see it. Pointing to Jesus' words concerning divorce is not a case at all, and would not stand a chance in ANY unbiased court. Thanks for your input. Don Dean |
||||||
4 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | retxar | 68462 | ||
Your statements of Abraham, David, and Solomon’s multi-wive woes speaks of some of the problems that I was talking about. In your previous post you stated that 2Sam 12:8 says that God gave David 5 of his 18 wives? How did you come up with this? This scripture is speaking of Saul’s wives; or actually WIFE, since he only had one (Ahinoam, 1Sam 14:50), of whom David never took as a wife. This is speaking of a King’s privilege according to social custom, not a Godly precedent. When a king died, social custom allowed his successor the liberty to take the previous king’s wives. Also, in context, Nathan was speaking of all David had, and was speaking out against David’s great sin of adultery, murder, and greed. Mat 19:5 ....shall cleave to his wife.... Jesus said for a man to cleave to one wife, not several. This is a command not an option. Many NT scriptures (1Co 7, Eph 5, etc, etc, etc) deal with commands and instructions of how a husband is to treat his wive. The scriptures even tells us that marriage is a good thing which satisfies desires and prevents sexual immorality from occurring outside of marriage. Scripture does not tell a man that seeking another wife is an option to satisfy desires of those who may find another attractive. Scripture does not tell a man that seeking another wife is an option to satisfy desires of those who’s wife may be unable to meet his needs. Many NT scriptures deal with the proper relationship between a man and his WIFE. Not once is a man told how to deal with the mountain of problems that would occur with multi-wive families. How come? For the same reason scripture does not tell us how to have safe sex or tell us how to smoke cigarettes and not get sick. Scripture does not deal with these issues because God only makes provisions for what He designs. retxar |
||||||
5 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | Swordman007 | 68533 | ||
I am not sure what version of the Bible you are speaking from in reference to 2 Sam. 12:8, but the NIV and the KJV both translate the plural form "wives" in reference to what Saul had that was given to David. I prefer to believe what Nathan said rather than men. Saul actually had more than one wife. I believe he had five that were ultimately given to David. Here is the actual quote from the KJV of that verse, "thy master's wives into thy bosom..." That clearly speaks of Saul's having had more than one wife that was given to David as his wives. Now, anyone who has done a simply word study knows that "into thy bosom" is a very intimate statement. You can overlook the obvious, but then that is all you would be doing. You appear to be the only one in this discussion who has called this into question. Everyone else appears to be aware of this fact and are avoiding it because of its implications. Thanks for your comments. Don |
||||||
6 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | Reformer Joe | 68547 | ||
"Everyone else appears to be aware of this fact and are avoiding it because of its implications." Ahem, who is avoiding issues here? You seem to be able to answer everyone substantively, but fail to have time for me. I hate to shatter your ego (or libido), but your pro-polygamous position is not nearly as untenable as you are declaring it to be. Let's take a look: 'Nathan then said to David, "You are the man! Thus says the LORD God of Israel, 'It is I who anointed you king over Israel and it is I who delivered you from the hand of Saul. I also gave you your master's house and your master's wives into your care, and I gave you the house of Israel and Judah; and if that had been too little, I would have added to you many more things like these!'"' --2 Samuel 12:8 What we are seeing here is not an advocacy of polygamy, but rather a declarative statement summarizing the fact that David assumed Saul's position as king of Israel, with all of the material aspects of that position that Saul had possessed. Did God give David those wives? Absolutely, just as everything anyone has is given by God either actively or permissively. In God's economy, "giving" can mean "allowing to have." Here are some examples: "For thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I am going to make you a terror to yourself and to all your friends; and while your eyes look on, they will fall by the sword of their enemies. So I will give over all Judah to the hand of the king of Babylon, and he will carry them away as exiles to Babylon and will slay them with the sword.'" --Jeremiah 20:4 He gives the land of Judah to Babylon not as a reward for Babylon's faithfulness, but as judgment toward Judah. Likewise, Assyria is ordained by God to plunder the land of Israel, but that divinely-ordained gift is really given to ultimately enact judgment on the Assyrians as well (Isaiah 10). Likewise, God gave permission to Satan to torment Job, and in the New Testament, with regard to sinners, "Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them." --Romans 1:24 Would you say in this instance that God giving people what they want implies that God approves of what they do? God gave people over to homosexuality...therefore God is happy that they are homosexuals? Ultimately everything falls under the umbrella of God's providence (from the word "provide"), so God giving Saul's wives to David does not necessarily imply an APPROVAL of polygamy, even though in this case he temporarily TOLERATES it. And, when we look at how often Genesis 2 is given as a pattern in the New Testament, it is pretty clear that polygamy is not preferred by God. --Joe! |
||||||