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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | mark d seyler | 163097 | ||
Hi Atdcross, Discipline is their perserverance? I would suggest that discipline is an adverse circumstance administered to produce a desired change. As a parent, I have wanted my children to suffer. I wanted them to suffer just enough to never try a particular behavior again. Did I prefer that they always did what was right? Of course! And I am certain that God prefers we simply obey. The the fact of the matter is that we don't obey, and in those times, God would be proving that He didn't love us if He didn't bring discipline, chastisement, scourging - yes, suffering - into our lives. When the Holy Spirit drove Jesus into the wilderness for a 40 day fast, do you suppose Jesus suffered from He food deprivation? Whose idea was that? We call it suffering. The Bible calls it chastening, sancfitying, proving, and a host of others things. Just because it seems bad to us does not mean that it always is bad. It can hurt to heal. What kind of doctor would say "I'm not going to set your broken bone! Don't you know how much that would hurt? Better to let you be crippled!" Please do not misunderstand me. I do not believe that God inflicts suffering for the sake of watching us squirm! But I think the Bible is clear that suffering has a place in our development, and God would be remiss if He did not include it as needed. I will look forward to sharing discussion on other topics with you, and may God teach both of us if we are in error! God bless you my brother! Love in Christ, Mark |
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2 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 163101 | ||
You asked, “Discipline is their perseverance?” Maybe I was not clear. It is discipline in order that they would be trained and strengthened to persevere. The believers in Hebrews are urged to use the persecution to their benefit, that is, to train themselves by it to greater obedience to Father. However, I do not agree that it is persecution which God “set up” for them although (1) it necessarily occurs because, as I have stated, the world’s hostility to the gospel and (2) God does allow it for the very reason that he needs faithful men to witness for him for the purpose of saving, even those who are his enemies. For my part as a parent, I do not want my children to suffer. I’d rather they obey by their experience of my voice as one who loves them and seeks their best. That is how I have trained them. However, there is no disagreement on the necessity of discipline although it is something I do not want to do and take no pleasure in. I do not see this as discipline but as testing. Jesus needed no correction. Jesus was being tested and proved as to his fitness for the task of redeeming sinful men. Again, (1) Jesus’ life/death is unique and certain aspects of it do not necessarily mean it is to be experienced by all believers. (2) It was God’s “idea” but not without Jesus submission to be driven into the wilderness. It needed to be shown that he was "holy, innocent, undefiled, and separate from sinners." You said, “Please do not misunderstand me. I do not believe that God inflicts suffering for the sake of watching us squirm! But I think the Bible is clear that suffering has a place in our development, and God would be remiss if He did not include it as needed.” I am not arguing the point that suffering is and, at times, is necessary. I am saying that God never planned, intends, or desires that we do suffer. |
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3 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | mark d seyler | 163102 | ||
Hi Atdcross, For my part, I will leave this thread with what I have already said. Love in Christ, Mark |
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