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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 163056 | ||
12:1 – Notice, those “cloud of witnesses” included those that were persecuted. Therefore, the writer of Hebrews urges them to everything (including personal sin) that would hinder them from persevering (cf. 10:19-22). Again, they are exhorted to perseverance in view of the examples of the faith of those in chapter 11 who held onto the promises of God despite persecution. Heb 12:2 – I agree, Jesus death was the perfect and ultimate example of one who endured all, but what is specifically mentioned is persecution, especially when chapter 11 is included. Heb 12:3 – It seems to me this verse continues the thought within the context of persecution. Heb 12:4 – The only difference at present being was that their “struggle” was not bloody (cf. 10:32-34). It does not seem to me that personal sin is the emphasis here, although it need not be ruled out as part of the thought. Heb 12:5 – – Considering this verse comes right after dealing with examples of those who experienced persecution for their faith (i.e. chapter 11), I’m not entirely convinced. The apostle may be using the Hebrew text in proverbs but with a slight variation on the theme (from discipline to persecution) or an integration of two themes (persecution and discipline). I would tend to go for the former idea. The question I would ask, is the word “and” included in the Greek (not that I know Greek)? In any case, “and” may not necessarily mean “a new thought” but as “an addition” to the thought already being conveyed. I do not think that the thought is necessarily new; it is merely the continuation on a theme (persecution) but from a different perspective. Heb 12:6-7 – No argument that personal sin must be resisted but, the writer seems to refer specifically to the danger of apostasy (10:26,38), again, within the context of persecution. Although, I have no problem agreeing that personal sin cannot be ruled out, however, the focus is within the context of persecution. The writers whole emphasis seems to be to warn them against outsides forces that are contrary to the teachings they have been given and to encourage them to “hold on” to the “the hope” they have been given in the message of the gospel (3:6); to do that they must “everything that hinders [although not necessarily sin] and the sin [in general, not necessarily of specific sin] that so easily entangles them.” |
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2 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | mark d seyler | 163059 | ||
Hi atdcross, As I survey Heb. 11, I find: By faith: We know God created everything. Abraham offered Isaac. Enoch was translated. Noah built the ark. Abraham left his home. Sarah conceived. Isaac blessed Jacob. Jacob blessed the sons of Joseph. Joseph gave orders for his bones. Moses was hid. Moses identified with the Hebrews. Moses left Egypt. ...kept the passover. ...passed through the Red Sea. The walls of Jericho fell. Rahab survived. Gideon prevailed. Barak prevailed. Samson prevailed. Jephthah prevailed. Kingdoms were subdued. Righteousness wrought. Promises obtained. Lion's mouth's stopped. Quenched fire. Escaped the sword. Were made strong. Dead raised. Others tortured. mockings and scourgings. Bonds and imprisonments. Were stoned. Sawn in two. Slain with the sword. Were destitute. Afflicted, tormented. 28 non-persecution examples. 9 persecution-related examples. To say that the primary characturization of the example of this chapter is the suffering of persecution ignores three fourths of the examples given. At the end of chapter 11, all are considered in the same group. "and these all, having obtained a good report through faith, did not receive the promise, for God had provided some better thing for us, that they should not be made perfect without us." They are all grouped together, then contrasted against the church, which has received a better covenant. This is the point of the book of Hebrews, a better covenant. Now we go to chapter 12. Seeing what they all went through, and considering the superiority of our covenant, (Therefore) let us lay aside every weight and sin. . . Verse three speaks of the "contradiction" of sinners against Jesus. This is not neccessarily persecution, but could also be opposition, hostility, or rebellion. Verse four specifically says "struggling against sin." This is not persecution. It is not a sin to be persecuted. Look back to verse one, the sin that so easily ensnares US. I do not agree with your exposition of this passage. Look back to Proverbs, which this writer is quoting: Proverbs 3:11-12 My son, do not despise the LORD's discipline or be weary of his reproof, (12) for the LORD reproves him whom he loves, as a father the son in whom he delights. There is no other context. This is a stand-alone statement. I think I am starting to go in circles on this topic. I really don't know what else I can add, so I would prefer to move on to something new. God bless you! Love in Christ, Mark |
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