Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 162295 | ||
I would phrase point 2, "not walking right". In any case, in general and if by "afflict" you mean "to bring suffering" in an evil sense like sickness or rape, my answer is yes. |
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2 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | Searcher56 | 162332 | ||
God's day to you, atdcross, Do you include innocent children and their families ... even those who are upright and blameless? Searcher | ||||||
3 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 162341 | ||
Hi Searcher, See my comment to Doc. The main point I am trying to make is that suffering is not God's intention, although, unfortunately, it is reality. I am not trying to ascertain who suffers or not, who deserves it or not. If I gave that impression, I apologize. But to answer your question, in general, everyone experiences suffering to one degree or another for one reason or another, some more, some less than others, whether they are blameworthy or blameless... unfortunately. |
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4 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 162343 | ||
Dear Atdcross, So, you deem that since suffering is not God's intention, it is beyond His ability to assuage, but is rather a matter of "misfortune?" However, if I understand correctly, if a believer experiences "sickness or rape" we may know that he is not "right with God?" In Him, Doc |
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5 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 162345 | ||
Hi Doc, Wow...that was a quick response! Suffering is unfortunate...a "misfortune" allowed by God. That is not to say it just happened without any reference to cause and effect. Because suffering is not God's intention, it does not mean "it is beyond His ability to assuage." It seems you have misunderstood. Maybe I was not clear. In any case, again, my answer is, not necessarily. |
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6 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 162347 | ||
Dear Atdcross, I'm not working today. Consequently, I have a chance to answer. I don't think you've thought through your theology on this, you may be expressing a view that you've heard. For example, the Word of Faith folks commonly take a similar stance. From the Scriptures you might take time to consider: God tears, heals, smites, binds up (Hos 6:1); devours like a lion (Hosea 13:8); wounds, afflicts, strikes, bruises, smites, makes sore, heals, kills, makes alive (Deut 32:39; 1 Sam 2:6; Jer 31:28; Job 5:18; Isa 53:10); forms the light, creates and causes darkness (Isa 45:7; Jer 13:16; Ex 10:21; 14:10); makes peace, makes the dumb, deaf, seeing, blind (Ex 4:11); sends sore judgments upon Jerusalem -- the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast -- (Ezek 14:21); sends an evil spirit (Judges 9:23, 1 Sam 16:14; 18:10; 19:9-10); sends evil angels (Ps 78:49), shoots arrows and darts, breaks bones (Lam 3:12-13; Num 24:8-9; Deut 32:22); heaps mischief upon people (Deut 32:23); breaks in pieces horses, nations, chariots, rider, men, women, the young, the old, the young man, the maiden, shepherds, flocks, husbandman/yoke of oxen, captains/rulers (Jer 51:20-23); turns men to destruction (Psalms 90:3); is as a moth and rottenness (Hos 5:12); feeds and makes drunk with worm wood, gives the water of gall to drink (Lam 3:15; Jer 9:15); creates and brings evil/calamities (Isa 45:7, Jer 18:8, Job 2:10, Amos 3:6); creates the day of prosperity and the day of calamity (Ecc 7:14). etc. There are many more instances in Scripture that indicate that God is fully Sovereign. In a general sense all suffering is the consequence of sin. However, we are not given the insight to assert that a given example of suffering is always associated with that person's sin. Jesus dealt with this several times in His ministry (Luke 13:1-5, John 9:1-3, etc.) This particular branch of theology we call "theology proper," the study of God Himself. In Him, Doc "Nothing happens by chance or outside the sphere of God's providence. As God is the First Cause of all events, they happen immutably and infallibly according to His foreknowledge and decree, to which they stand related. Yet by His providence God so controls them, that second causes, operating either as fixed laws, or freely, or in dependence upon other causes, play their part in bringing them about. (Gen 8:22; Prov 16:33; Acts 2:23)" --London Baptist Confession of Faith 1689 (chapter 5, paragraph 2) "God's almighty power, unsearchable wisdom, and infinite goodness are so far-reaching and all-pervading, that both the fall of the first man into sin, and all other sinful actions of angels and men, proceed according to His sovereign purposes. It is not that He gives His bare permission, for in a variety of ways He wisely and powerfully limits, orders and governs sinful actions, so that they effect His holy designs. Yet the sinfulness involved in the actions proceeds only from angels and men and not from God who, being most holy and righteous, neither is nor can be the author or approver of sin. (Gen 50:20; 2 Sam 24:1; 2 Kings 19:28; 1 Chron 21:1; Psalm 50:21; 76:10; Isa 10:6,7,12; Rom 11:32-34; 1 John 2:16)" Ibid (chapter 5, paragraph 4) "The Sovereignty of God is the stumbling block on which thousands fall and perish; and if we go contending with God about His sovereignty it will be our eternal ruin. It is absolutely necessary that we should submit to God as an absolute sovereign, and the sovereign of our souls; as one who may have mercy on whom He will have mercy and harden whom He will" --Jonathan Edwards "There is no sphere of existence over which Jesus is not sovereign, in virtue of His role both in creation (Col 1:16-17) and in reconciliation (Col 1:18-20). There can be no dualistic division between some areas which He rules and others which He does not." --N. T. Wright "It is not merely that God has the power and right to govern all things but that He does so always and without exception." --John Piper |
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7 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 162584 | ||
Hi Doc! Hope you had a good day off. It seems all the verses you cited, for the most part, involve God’s judgment against the ungodly, the sinner. None are suggesting that God is inflicting suffering upon believers, that is, the ones who are faithful to him, the godly. Is there any reference to God inflicting suffering on one who is godly? I did not say all suffering is caused by one’s personal acts of sin, although I will say, in general, that suffering is always associated with sin. If there were no sin, there would be no suffering. We are all victims as well as perpetrators of sin. In Luke, Jesus seems to affirm universal guilt: “unless you repent you will, in the same way, perish.” As such, Jesus was associating sin with suffering in general. As far as John 9, again, Jesus did not answer the question of guilt or innocence but ignored it altogether; nor is he saying that God caused the suffering. Jesus is preoccupied with what God will do in spite of it. Furthermore, God showed his glory, not by inflicting suffering, but by healing. The study of “God Himself” is what has led me to believe as I do. I disagree with the Baptist Confession. I also cannot agree with Edwards that the sovereignty of God, when properly understood, is a stumbling block. I am of the opinion that certain views, Biblically unwarranted, of divine sovereignty are a “stumbling block on which thousands fall and perish.” I can agree with Wright and Piper’s statement at face value; it all depends on what they mean by certain terms used, like “rule,” “govern,” and “sovereign.” As omnipotent as God is, someone wrote something to the effect that God cannot rightly do to men (whom he created) whatever it is in his power to do to them. Please allow me at this point ot make it clear that I am not attempting to influence anyone to my views. I am only sharing them. |
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8 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | lionheart | 162725 | ||
Hey atdcross, Hope this day finds you well and blessed of God. I will agree with you we are all perpetrators of sin (Romans 3:23).I dont see anything that says we are victims.Do we deal with consequences of sin,ours or some one elses? Yes,every day.The consequence and result of Adam and Eve's sin was death. Its something that if the Lord tareys long enough we will all have to face. Heb 9:27. When Saul was sent out to destroy the Amalekites God told him to utterly destroy all. He didnt fully comply. We know the rest. Saul attempted to shift the blame. In a sense he may have looked like a victim.Not! He made his choice and chose to not deal with his sin. I've heard this refered to as the Saul syndrome at times.Because of what jesus Christ did there are no victims. There are those who repent Acts 2:38,1 John 1:9 and there are those who dont or wont repent.There are no victims here. I will say this we can fall victim to circumstance,even consequence totally not of our doing. But we can claim Ephesians 3:20 on a daily basis. Somtimes I think there are alot of us suffering from the Saul syndrome,myself included.We are not victims,we can repent,we can deal with our sin,we can trust God.We can trust God to help get us through lifes daily challenges.Philippians 4:13. No one has to have a victims mentality. In Christ, lionheart |
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9 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 163065 | ||
You said, “I dont see anything that says we are victims.” In general, because of our First Parents’ disobedience, we are all victims of their sins, having become sinners, under the sentence of death, and ruled by demonic powers (Romans 5:12). In particular, we are all victims of one another. One is the victim of murder and another of abusive parents; mild or severe, we are all victims of someone’s negative or sinful behavior. That is not to deny we are responsible for our conduct, responses, failures, our own victimization of others; nor does it relieve us of guilt. |
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