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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 162818 | ||
Hi Brother Tim, I agree that is what Peter wrote, however, that suffering itself is God’s will was not what, I believe, Peter meant by it; at least, not when the context is taken into consideration. None of the verses hint that God is the cause of their suffering or that he purposely intended it. Suffering, as Peter says, is the inevitable outcome of the Christian life because of worldly opposition; therefore, they should not be surprised when it occurs as if godliness assured peace and comfort (Gal 4:29; 2 Tim 3:12). Note vss.15-16. If there is to be suffering, he tells them it should be for doing right and not for doing wrong. This is “suffering according to the will of God,” when we suffer because we are doing what is right. To suffer in and of itself is not God’s will. If it were, then even the one who suffers for doing wrong would be “suffering according to the will of God” because he suffers, which would, evidently, make Peter’s exhortation in vs.15 meaningless. If it is God who causes and intends suffering, why pray for the sick to be healed? Don’t we want “God’s will” for the person”? Why counsel a woman who gets beaten everyday by her husband to separate from him? Why have an abusive husband arrested for that matter? When a child is being raped, he/she is “suffering according to God’s will.” Being raped, therefore, was the best thing that can happen to that child, is it not? I am only trying to follow the line of reasoning that would follow your objection. If suffering itself is God’s will, any believer who suffers for whatever reasons, wrong or right, is in God’s will; and any believer not suffering or who never experienced suffering is out of God’s will. |
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2 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | Morant61 | 162823 | ||
Greetings Atdcross! Thanks for the response my friend! :-) You raise many points, and I will try to address them. 1) God's will and suffering: There seem to be two mistakes that you are making with this text. a) First of all, you are denying the clear statement of Peter that the suffering in 1 Peter is a direct result of the will of God. No matter what our personal feelings on this subject may be, God's Word is quite clear. Peter did not say, 'those who suffer according to the will of men'. He said, 'those who suffer according to the will of God'. b) Secondly, you then take the word 'suffer' from it's context and make it refer to 'all suffering'. The text does not say that 'all suffering' is a result of God's will. The suffering mentioned in 1 Peter seems to be focused mostly upon the way someone is treated because one is a Christian and trying to live righteously. One cannot take Peter statement to mean that every act that brings suffering is a direct result of God's will. In fact, 1 Peter 3:17 makes it clear that not all suffering is a result of God's will. My original point to you was simply that 1 Peter 4:19 does tie some suffering to God's will, while you had stated that it is not God's will that they suffer. Yet, Phil. 1:29 explicitly states that suffering for Christ is a gift from God. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | atdcross | 163064 | ||
I think I already answered why I disagree with the above interpretation; cf. #162818. It seems you are allowing the verse to interpret itself without any consideration as to the context, which I still contend is persecution, cf. vs.12ff. Adam Clarke seems to express what I mean better than I can when he says, “A man suffers according to the will of God who suffers for righteousness' sake…” To suffer…period…is not the will of God. However, to maintain our witness to the gospel despite the persecution, is suffering according to the will of God. This is not man’s way of willing our suffering but it is God’s way. You said, that I “take the word 'suffer' from it's context and make it refer to 'all suffering'. The text does not say that 'all suffering' is a result of God's will...” If I gave you that impression, in relation to the text in question, I stand corrected. This verse has persecution in view and not all types of suffering. However, I still maintain on the basis of other Bible verses, that it is not God’s will that believer’s suffer any form of suffering; at least, not for sufferings sake. I can go further to say that it is not God’s intention that anyone suffer but, things being as they are, the infliction or allowing of suffering may be necessary. 1 Peter 4:19 – I think the suffering involved here has particular reference to any form of suffering endured because of one’s obedience to God. It discounts any suffering for doing what is wrong as suffering that is according to God’s will; and it does not have any reference at all to such sufferings as, for example, being sick or raped. Yet, Phil. 1:29 – With the privilege of believing in Christ and receiving all the benefits that accrue from grace, it is also a privilege to suffer for Christ – equivalent to suffering for righteousness sake. It is not to suffer itself that is “the gift”, but “to suffer for him” that is the gift. Anyone can suffer. It is what one suffers for that gives it value or meaning. |
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4 | Suffering and God's providence | Bible general Archive 3 | DocTrinsograce | 163073 | ||
Dear Atdcross, The tenacity with which you hold your view is nothing if not remarkable. Would you, please, offer a Scripture passage or two on which this doctrine might be supported? In Him, Doc |
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