Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Predestination question? | 1 Tim 2:4 | John Reformed | 85578 | ||
Hi Tim, It seems to me, that unless we examine Paul's thoughts to their conclusion, we will not reach the answer to our question Rom 5:17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ 17. tells us that death has ruled over all mankind through the sin of one man Adam. Therefore a connection is established between Adam and all men who are descended from him (all men universaly). BUT (and here a different and limited connection is made ) "...those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life " THROUGH Christ. The fact is that the first group is unlimited (for all are born "in Adam") and the second group is limited to "those who recieve". Rom 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men (universaly), even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men (who recieve ). Rom 5:19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. 19. "the many" here means "ALL". And the factor that brings righteousness is the obedience of Christ. Therefore, if you insist that ALL men are justified, you must conclude ALL men are among "those who recieve". Which of course is the the doctrine of universal salvation. Your Friend, John |
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2 | Predestination question? | 1 Tim 2:4 | Morant61 | 85610 | ||
Greetings John! This is an excellent example of the problem I have with this interpretive approach. In the span of three verses, ?many? means all men universally and ?many? means a limited group of men. In the same span, ?all men? means all men universally and ?all men? means a limited group of men. This would seem to go against all common sense my friend. How would anyone be able to ?determine? from the text what each word or phrase means? To me, there seems to be a better and more consistent approach. Verses 18 and 19 all use universal terminology. I say that there is a reason for this. Paul intended for us to understand that just as Adam?s sin brought death and condemnation for all men, so also Christ brought justification and life for all men. However, verse 17 is the only verse that does not use the universal clause in its second clause. Why? Because, the gift must be received. I disagree that understanding the terms ?all? and ?many? must lead to universalism for the following reason. Are all men in fact finally condemned? No! Neither are all men in fact finally justified. The verses describe the status opened to men because of Adam and the status opened to men because of Christ. Neither one is final. Men can move from condemnation to life through faith. It seems best to me to take the language in its natural sense. I am never comfortable with changing the meaning of terms throughout a passage. In this case, by doing so, we end up with ?many? meaning ?all? and ?all? meaning ?some?! ;-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | Predestination question? | 1 Tim 2:4 | John Reformed | 85616 | ||
Well Tim... I guess that, in the end, it is our pre-suppositions which determine our understanding. And until the Holy Spirit enlightens one or the both of us to the truth, we must continue espouse what we believe to be God's doctrine. Always a pleasure to knock heads with you Tim. John |
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4 | Predestination question? | 1 Tim 2:4 | Morant61 | 85617 | ||
Greetings John! Fair enough! I do enjoy our discussions my friend! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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