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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Confused | 1 Tim 2:12 | EdB | 146838 | ||
Perhaps we should back to before the reformation. I said that kind of tongue in cheek. I not sure but I think Jesus is not happy with the state of the church today. With thousands of denominations each claiming themselves right and the others mislead. When each man decided he could determine for himself what he Bible said without the investment of years of study and training. Without the commitment of fervent prayer and disregarding the traditions, past teachings, and apostolic succession of knowledge I think he got just what we see today a church that is no where near what it could/should have been. EdB |
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2 | Confused | 1 Tim 2:12 | jcsav | 146934 | ||
That was true even in the Churches that we know to be True. Jesus had something against all, but one of the Seven Churches in Asia (Rev.1:20-22). Do you think they all had many different beliefs? And if he said, that he would remove one of these (if they did not repent) (Rev 2:5) Then there is no reason why we should think, that every group and denomination that say they know him, have a candlestick before him. | ||||||
3 | Confused | 1 Tim 2:12 | EdB | 147003 | ||
Jcsav Your question "Do you think they all had many different beliefs?" I'm not sure they had different belief as much as different attitudes. There is a difference. An attitude will allow you to tolerate something you know is wrong. A belief is what you hold to be truth. I see both of these in the church today, false beliefs and lousy attitudes. Both are serious conditions but false beliefs usually require deception where lousy attitudes are usually the result of apathy. Denominational differences are more belief oriented than attitude so I don't think this is what Jesus was addressing. I think the churches mentioned in Revelations were of the same denomination but held entirely different attitudes. They were allowing things to take place in their church that shouldn’t be named among Christians. They weren’t so much deceived as they were tied up in apathy saying, “yes it is wrong but let someone else handle it.” What we are discussing is beliefs. The various denominational beliefs I believe are deceptions birthed in pride. At around the time of Reformation man decided he was pretty “neat” and we entered the era of Enlightenment. Man decided he could and would decide for himself the things that would effect him. He even took this attitude with scripture. Man no longer needed any religions training, understand of the original languages, no longer needed to consult historical perspectives and accounts, no longer needed traditions and rituals. Man himself would sit down read the Bible and decide for himself what it meant and how it applied to his life. While each man claimed to only allow the Bible to formulate his opinions and options we see in reality man reached 1000’s of opinions or options we now call denominations. We can see that while the term sola scriptura has a noble ring man with his biases, prejudices, opinions, beliefs is unable to do what he claims. Another thing that came into being around the time of age of Enlightenment was man’s decision to be the captain of his own destiny. No man was going to tell him about anything. Therefore there was this growing resentment against the church often expressed as, “who were they to tell me what to believe. They are just men like me they put on their pants one leg at a time.” This sounds good and is something we often rally too today. However looking at the truth we see these men they refused to listen too were men that dedicated they entire lives doing nothing but searching the scriptures for the truth. Getting back on subject many of prohibitions we discuss today weren’t made out of political correctness or some underlying motive, but rather by years of study. Study of ancient records, study of collections of verbal statements contributed to the Apostles, actual teachings handed down from the apostles, and a through study of scripture. People often choose to reject this process saying that is not what scripture says to me. Therefore declaring their righteous ability to judge for themselves what God is saying. In fact the standard in not God but rather the standard is what they can make God say. EdB |
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4 | Confused | 1 Tim 2:12 | Morant61 | 147005 | ||
Greetings EdB! You are my dear friend, but I respectfully disagree with your characterization of the reformation. :-) The reformation was a rebellion against false doctrines and a corrupt church. Martin Luther was doing far more than simply asserting his right to believe what he wanted. :-) It would have been great if the 'church' could have stayed united, but it was no longer possible at that point. The 'church' wanted to kill Martin Luther for preaching Scripture. What other choice did he have? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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5 | Confused | 1 Tim 2:12 | EdB | 147007 | ||
Tim I don't think I characterized the Reformation, I did add some explanation for some driving forces behind it. I see the Reformation as needed, the church needed reformed, but I have a problem with the result. Martin Luther wanted the church to remain one, his was not dividing force. He was merely a pawn used by the wannabe "power brokers" of the time to free themselves of Rome. Your absolutely right the reformation was over false teaching mainly of indulgences which was an idea generated to raise the building capital for the Cathedrals of Rome. But let us not be deceived the motivates to split from Rome was various men’s desire for power and to do as they pleased. EdB |
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6 | Confused | 1 Tim 2:12 | Morant61 | 147014 | ||
Greetings EdB! Which men? I would agree that Luther probably wanted the church to remain united, but he was not willing to remain united at the cost of truth. Therefore, a split was inevitable. I certainly can't see Luther being a 'pawn' of anyone though! ;-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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7 | Confused | 1 Tim 2:12 | kalos | 147031 | ||
Tim: You write: "I would agree that Luther probably wanted the church to remain united, but he was not willing to remain united at the cost of truth." You've said it all. That's the whole Reformation issue in a nutshell. We must always unite around the truth, not in spite of it. Grace to you, Kalos |
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