Results 1 - 2 of 2
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Women in Ministry | 1 Tim 2:12 | yayatheresa | 145848 | ||
I have spent some time reading the notes, questions and responses on this site. This is my first note. I am a woman. I do not write this as someone with a personal and official ministry such as Joyce Meyer(?), Gloria Copeland, Paula White, etc. I am the wife of a deacon and considered a deacon as well in my church. I am also someone with a personal relationship with Christ and consider myself to be part of the "Great Commission" of Matthew 28:18-20. As of this writing that is the extent of my "ministry". I thank God for it and do not want to sound as if I minimize it. Only to assure the reader I do not have a personal agenda in what I write. I am seeking to know the truth as God declares it regardless of how it affects me personally as a woman. This writing of Paul in 1 Tim 2:11-12 as well as 1 Cor. 14:34-35 are the main texts given as to the silence of women in church. (Please anyone knowing of others let me know) I believe Paul explains the text in 1 Cor. by his response in V. 36. "What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?" He, as I understand, is responding to thier own teaching (V34 and 35) with his answer (V36). I will paraphrase it this way, "Are you serious? Are you God? and did you send out the word? or do you think you men are the only ones the word can come to?" The text in Timothy causes me to ask some questions. #1 Who is the man that the woman is not to usurp authority over? Is it any man at all? her husband? the male authority in her assembly? Or could it be Jesus Christ himself? #2 The use of the particular word usurp is important. One definition according to Webster is "to seize or exercise authority or possession wrongfully" Doesn't this sound like the woman here is trying to assume authority OVER the person (man or woman?) that God has placed in the position in question? Timothy was left in charge of the church in Ephesus where the main focus of the city had been on the worship of the goddess Diana. (Act 19:27-28) Could this spiritual wickedness have been a reason for this verse? I do not want to appear to say that this text is not for all times and all people. It is, as is all scripture. I have a problem with scripture being explained away with phrases such as "that was for their culture" or "that was for their time". I am convinced that God the Holy Spirit was not only in control of the content of the Holy Scriptures but also of preserving the exact content he wanted. No doubt there were letters and sermons that were for certain assemblies at certain times in history. These were not preserved by God to be set forth as timeless and changeless truths for all mankind. I know of no assembly of believes that adhere to a strict 'women in silence" doctrine. If we believe this is what Paul is teaching in 1Cor. 14:34-35 then women cannot be vocal at all in church. Not to sing, to testify, nothing. We cannot just pull out certain areas of speaking (preaching, teaching, etc.) and apply them here. If he meant keep silent. Then silent women must be. Does this line up with the multitude of other scriptures where women spoke about God and were used of God? For me it does not. Even in the Old Testament women could choose to: be a Nazarite (Num 6:2), be a prophetess (many instances Old and New Testament), Deborah was a Judge of Israel. Surely she had some authority over men in that position. Priscilla and her husband Aquila taught the man Apollos (Act 18:27). What is this? Can a woman teach one man and not two?. Is it the number of men present when she speaks or her geographical location at the time? Can she only expound and give what she has received from God only in her home? I am still learning and coming to an understanding of this and other, teachings. I am teachable and want with my whole heart to know the truth as God gives it. So I do not write this as an absolute. I would like some responses here to weigh out. For those who would wonder why I do not ask my own husband. We have studied this together and are of the same opinion and have the same questions. He has read this note and is interested as I am in the response we will receive. |
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2 | Women in Ministry | 1 Tim 2:12 | Aixen7z4 | 145880 | ||
Hello: I am very much impressed with your statements and questions. Rather than answering your questions, I would like to ask one of my own. Take it as a rhetorical question, if you will, and ponder it. The church has been on earth for thousands of years. With that in mind, des it not seem strange to you that we are still wrestling with that type of question? As human beings, and Christians, we have been male and female all along. Have we not known how we are to relate to each other? And yet it seems to me we are developing more questions, and creating more confusion, as time goes on. We are less and less sure how to relate to each other. In addition to the two passages you have mentioned, I would like to suggest 1 Corinthians 11. There we are told that even nature teaches us some proper roles for men and women. Our consciences can teach us too (Romans 1). But it is clear that we can know some things and yet refuse to allow that knowledge to guide our actions. More than that, we seem to have the capacity and the freedom not only to defy God, but also to urge others to do the same (Matthew 5:19). It seems to me that the teaching of Scripture is quite clear. But there are some among us who will try to use Scripture to question the idea of women joining in with congregational singing. And there are others who will find a way to justify placing a woman at the head of the local church. My point here is that the world and the church have been here for a long time, and we might have learned by now what the proper roles of men and women are, in the home and in the church. And perhaps, somewhere in our hearts and in our consciences, we do know these things. But we are getting further and further away from them. It is symptomatic of the state of the church, I think, because the role of the woman is not the only truth being questioned, not the only areas where we are straying. Let me encourage you if I may, by letting you know there are still assemblies where these things are not in question. True, in some places they are few and hard to find, but they are still with us. As in times past, God suffers all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless he does not leave himself without witness. He still does good, and gives us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness (Acts 14). Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant that is faithful to God‘s word. I think it is not proper or allowable for us to recommend churches on this forum. But if you are led to write to me personally and tell me where you live, I may be able to direct you to an assembly that follows the word of God on this issue. Let me also suggest that it is context and not culture that helps us to know the meaning of Scripture. You seem to know your Bible well, and if you will ponder all of the passages you have referenced here, I do believe the meaning will be clear. You and your husband have questions, not because the passages are difficult, but because you are quite aware of what the churches are doing, and you would like to think they may be correct. But the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith. But I am wondering why you ask the questions. Is it of academic interest only, or are you reconsidering your present role, or considering some other role for yourself. Your questions suggest you know a lot, and I’d encourage you to practice what you know. Consider what I say; and the Lord give you understanding in all things. |
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