Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Predestination | Eph 1:4 | Reformer Joe | 41814 | ||
You wrote: 'I know that a man is going to be affected by other teachings he has heard, but you can still make a conscience effort when you approach scripture to say "God I want to see things clearly, if I am having a wrong understanding becuase I have heard things said a certain way and it is not in the bible let me see that and agree with your word instead."' Yes, but again you are overlooking the fact that our minds are stained by sin, and the Holy Spirit works through the preaching of His Word as well. What do you say to an individual who goes off on her own with sincere efforts to hear what the Spirit says, and comes back with interpretations that contradict your sincerely sought-after views? Did the Holy Spirit speak to her or to you? Or does He contradict Himself? This is why God has constantly worked both in the individual believer and collectively within His church. If your view is in left field compared with historic Christianity (2000 years of millions of people of God searching the Scriptures and seeking to maintain and pass on the traditions of the apostles), then chances are that you are the one in error. You wrote: "Can it be that a person reading the Bible today with that heart might see something that is not taught in Bible School?" Depends on what Bible school. :) And again, is that thing that we see an accurate interpretation. Simply feeling with all your heart that God told you something does not mean that it was really God telling you something. Do you really think that, after 2000 years of the church, you are going to spot something that has been completely overlooked by ALL of those who have come before? Something "NEW" is generally something "not-so-new" and quite often "error" that has been previously addressed in Church history. Lastly, you wrote: "And the flock is hungry for this. About the last thing the flock wants or needs is to hear Calvinism. :)" So now you are speaking for the what the flock wants and needs? Please. I seriously doubt you have taken a poll of every evangelical Christian, explained Calvinism accurately (which I would bet a significant sum that you have wrong yourself), and asked them is they want or need that. The fact is that Biblical TRUTH is such a scarce commodity on this overstimulated religious landscape that that could very well be considered the "fresh" word that people have not heard and experienced! --Joe! |
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2 | Predestination | Eph 1:4 | Scribe | 41862 | ||
All good points Joe. And yet to be unwilling to heed the Word of God in Context (not some half verse used to propagate a false teaching) because your sect (whatever it might be titles in Christendom) says they don't believe that way is simply loving your sect over God. If your group establishes their doctrine on all the scripture and you have a heart after God you will indeed agree with your group (church affiliation) If your group uses certain verses and yet does not use all of them and so teaches a certain thing that is in error, it does not matter if they have been teaching it for 500 years. The length of time does not give authenticity to their doctrine. If it were then the Roman Catholic Church would have the greatest argument for authenticity, (as they think they do). Consider what I am saying and the Lord give you understanding in all things... When we study church history often we are reading the history of that which was not the church at all. We call it the church because it is the "visible" church observed by the political affairs of men, but it is no more the church we are reading about than reading the annals of the Pharisees would have been reading about the true God fearing and righteous Jew of New Testament times. We must take that into consideration glean what we can but always let the Spirit of God within us lead us into all truth. There were those of the true church behind the scenes in the middles ages (of which we have some history but not much,) that never wrote a book or annals for us to discuss. These are those that never had to come out of Roman Catholicism because they had enough of the Spirit of God in them to never join it in the first place. These are those that were not involved in the great debates because they had better more profitable things to do than to argue and strive with the saints, these are they that walk in peace and go where so ever the Spirit leads them and these are they that we will meet and hear about in heaven whose legacy is greater than that of Luther and yet they have no history books. (continued next post) |
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3 | Predestination | Eph 1:4 | Reformer Joe | 41872 | ||
The invisible church (i.e. the true saints of God) has always existed in connection with the visible church. You are correct in stating that the two are not the same. However, the visible church, although it has impurities which sometimes seem to outweigh the pure elements within it, overlaps the invisible church. Again, the biblical model is NOT flying solo with the Spirit. You mention all of these "true saints" before the Reformation that never joined the Roman Catholic Church. You say that there is little or no history of them at all, so how do you know of their existence? Perhaps you could cite at least a couple of examples so we could know who you are talking about. What true Christians existed outside of the visible church (whether that be Rome, Eastern Orthodoxy, the Coptic Churches, or whoever)? Since you are claiming that they existed, there must be at least one or two concrete examples. You keep repeating that the Spirit of God leads us into all truth. That is patently obvious to all true Christians. What you seem to keep minimizing is that it is most often not a solitary experience. The Holy Spirit works in our hearts as we read Scripture with faith and as we pray in accordance with His revealed truth in the Bible. The Holy Spirit works in our hearts as he works in the heart of a faithful minister of His Word, speaking truth which resonates in our Spirit-filled hearts. I believe the Holy Spirit works through the Lord's Supper (the Word visualized) to confirm in our hearts that we belong to Him. In short, the Holy Spirit primarily works in connection with His Word, but He doesn't limit Himself to private conversations (i.e. just us and Him). By the way, the classical Protestant problem with Roman Catholicism is not its adherence to tradition, but the fact that it has mixed apostolic tradition (seenn infallibly in Scripture, and I believe reliably in the early church councils) with tradition of its own making. Folks like Emmaus will disagree, but the problems in the RCC arose when the Church shifted from being an INTERPRETER of apostolic revelation to considering itself a SOURCE of revelation equal to that of Scripture (and, of course, considering itself as the DEFINER of what the apostolic tradition is rather than the PRESERVER of it). --Joe! |
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4 | Predestination | Eph 1:4 | Scribe | 41873 | ||
Well said brother. | ||||||