Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | When does the Baptism occur? | John 7:38 | rrscott | 43792 | ||
This could be scary, for me. Recently in my Christian life I had the privilege to here a friend and fellow believer (but from a different camp) relate to me what he meant when he used the phrase “baptism of the Holy Spirit”. For him it centered around the action of the Holy Spirit Baptizing us all into one body, the Body Of Christ. It started to alarm me that my friend was claiming the without the “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” we could not be saved or enter into heaven. Now for me the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is understood in a classic Pentecostal format, (second work of Grace) empowerment to be a Witness Unto Him, Acts 1 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. I realize that not everyone shares this view. My life was radically changed when I prayed for and received the “Baptism” at Jesus ’74 near Mercer, Pa. I and we (the Christians I fellowshipped with) referred to this experience as the “Baptism of the Holy Spirit”. I often wondered how nonpentecostal believers treated this phrase and the pertinent scriptures. Some would like to say that there is but one baptism, Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, ; this is obviously referring to the action of the Holy Spirit inserting us into one body. To make a doctrine out of one baptism though would be hard since Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. I was taught that baptizo can also mean to be penetrated by not just immersed into. I knew that I had received Jesus as my savior before this and was confident of my being found in Him on that last day, but I was severely lacking in my ability to speak up for My Lord. Afterward I found (to my employers frustration) that I could not be quiet any longer. This was the evidence that Father reminded me of when I asked Him if I had indeed received the “Baptism”. I do not think it is correct though to officially label this action “The Baptism of the Holy Spirit “ since I don’t find this exact phrase ever used in the Word for this specific event in a Christian life. The phrase “infilling of the Holy Spirit” might be less arbitrary. I said all that to set the seen for my answer. From my experience that has brought meaning and life to the Word of God I accept that there is I different and subsequent work of Grace to be done in each and every believer. The book of acts records at least two different types of examples that are clear to me. At the house of Cornelius we see that the knowledge of “sins forgiven” and the infilling with the resultant speaking with other tongues occurred together. When Philip preached His message many heard and believed, but Peter and John found it needful to pray for the converts to receive The Holy Ghost of which they had not heard of. Cornelius’ did not hear of The Holy Spirit either, but they received Him none the less. For those the have not considered, salvation is a life long experience (growth), and without The Spirit of the Living God to aid us or even do the work of transforming us we would remain spiritual babes , always in need of milk, never learning or exercising our senses to be able to discern both good and evil. I do not hold that a believer must have the Pentecostal experience to either be saved or grow in the Lord, but He sure cuts through a lot of inability’s that I could not have done easily without The Holy Spirit penetrating every fiber of my being (something that needs constantly refreshed). Romans 8v26-28. |
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2 | When does the Baptism occur? | John 7:38 | Makarios | 43797 | ||
Greetings R. R. Scott! Thank you for your response! You said that you went to "Jesus '74" in Mercer, PA.. Was this an "outdoor" fellowship, or a gathering of Christian singing groups, much like the annual outdoor 3 day gathering near Asbury College called ICTHUS in Wilmore, KY? I have personally attended ICTHUS twice, in '92 and '94. But I have heard that there are more of these types of "gatherings", and I was wondering whether Jesus '74 was something along those lines. :-) Thank you for sharing a little of your testimony! Pentecostals, as compared to Mennonites or Methodists, do have a different interpretation of Baptism, but answers based upon the Bible was what I was looking for, and I appreciate you supplying Scripture to underscore your answer! I appreciate the fact that you did say that you "do not hold that a believer must have the Pentecostal experience to either be saved or grow in the Lord.." Here is my experience, so that you may know where I come from.. I was born as the son of a United Methodist pastor in 1976. I was baptised as an infant in 1976. I was "all boy" (as my Mother would put it) as a child and I showed the sinful nature from the start! :-) In 1984, I gave my heart to the Lord Jesus Christ, and I began to earnestly study and read the Bible. What initially drew me to the Lord was when I asked myself, "What am I doing here? What is the purpose of the human race?" And every time I came to the same Answer: "There is a God in heaven!" However, my faith grew cold during my teenage years and I drifted away from the faith, involving myself in many other things! But I remembered the Lord, and He remembered me, and I felt an unresistable calling to have a much closer relationship with Him! In 1995, I re-committed my life to serving the Lord, and I joined a Conservative Mennonite Church last year, as well as being "re-baptized" by immersion. Yes, I believe in "Believer's Baptism", and I believe that my first baptism as an infant was nothing more than a "baby dedication." So I decided to make it "official" and thus be at peace with my water baptism forever. However, I am convinced that I have been fully saved and secure since I first willingly gave my heart to the Lord (in 1984), even though I have drifted, came back, joined a church, and have been re-baptized. Yes, I have been forever changed since that moment, and I believe that the Holy Spirit has been active in my life ever since! So this is pretty much how I come to my thinking that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit begins at the moment of salvation. But I never said that it ends there (at the moment of salvation), and I believe that we are sealed for the Day of redemption. But this is only my opinion, and I will welcome all responses. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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3 | When does the Baptism occur? | John 7:38 | CDBJ | 43800 | ||
Hello blessed, speaking of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I see it pretty much the same way that you do. I would like to add some verses that might through some light on the issue. When John the Baptist was speaking about Jesus in Mathew 3:11 Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: John was speaking to a crowed that contained both believers and unbelievers. They were all going to be baptized by Christ, by one or the other with the Holy Spirit or fire. i.e. Those that receive Christ as their own personal Savior and those that don't will receive Christ's baptism of fire. Rev. 20:12-15 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Is this any help, CDBJ |
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4 | When does the Baptism occur? | John 7:38 | Makarios | 43802 | ||
Greetings CDBJ! Thank you for those verses! Yes, the Matthew 3:11 verse is helpful, since we know that Acts 19:1-10 gives us the only occurrence in the Bible where a person is re-baptised by water, and the verse that you have cited goes along with that. John the Baptist himself could not send or give the Holy Spirit, and that is something that only Jesus had the Authority to do, and then He gave all believers access to that Authority (Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:17-18). So that is how/why I could explain that Peter and Paul could lay hands on an individual to receive the Holy Spirit and John the Baptist could not. Thank you, and yes, your post certainly has contributed to this thread! Blessings to you, Makarios |
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5 | When does the Baptism occur? | John 7:38 | CDBJ | 43847 | ||
Hi Blessed, there is another verse that crystallizes my thanking on the baptism of the Spirit being at the point of salvation. Ephes. 4:5-6 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. The word (one), in Eph.4, is in reference to unification, the only thing that all believers can be unified about is something that they have no control over, needless to say, because it is done for them. All believers know that there is only one Lord, and that is Jesus, there is only one faith that unifies, and all believers have that in the person of Jesus Christ for salvation. All those mentioned are unified by the having the same primary faith in the one Lord i.e. all believers have faith in Jesus as the Son of God and are automatically unified at the point of salvation by the third person of the Trinity the Holy Spirit; thus as the verse explains, we have the Son, the Holy Spirit and the Father. The triune God dwells within all believers at the point of salvation and God gets all the credit. So who do we praise, our GREAT unified God who is one in essence and three in personalities, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. This makes sense to me, what do you think? CDBJ |
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6 | When does the Baptism occur? | John 7:38 | Makarios | 43852 | ||
Greetings my friend! I certainly agree! Isn't it interesting that when we are baptised by water, we can pick the lake, the setting, the time, the pastor, the season, the method, the witnesses, or even if anyone else is baptised with us? I most certainly agree! When we are apprehended by God, we do not pick the time or the place! God convicts us and we repent and ask Him into our hearts on His timing, not on ours. When we are baptised by the Holy Spirit, it occurs at a time that we have not even begun to plan for. If we had began to plan for it, then would we truly be saved if we had? No one can control the workings of the Holy Spirit, and I pray that He pierces every heart so that all may come to repentence and know Jesus as Lord and Savior! My father was saved when he was about 19 years old. He had once read through the Bible, out of plain curiosity. He was saved at around 2AM in the morning (he worked 3rd shift) in a factory while feeding material through an edge-banding machine. He recalls the experience, and how he just cried. No one around him, not his co-workers or even his own family, understood him. But he was saved! And his salvation helped to pave the way for my salvation to take place many years later, since, because of him, I was reared in an environment that was conducive to the working and awareness of Jesus Christ (my father became a pastor). But I did not choose the time of my salvation either, even though I was brought up all around church, being in a pastor's family. Blessings to you, Makarios |
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