Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What is eternal life? What is saved? | John 6:37 | kin | 15380 | ||
Hank, Your analogy of the lost son is innaccurate. In vs. 31-32 you will see that the son was "lost but is found, dead but alive." The context of chap. 15 is sinners that need to repent. If the son never came back to the father he would have remained "dead" and "lost". But he did repent saying "I have sinned against heaven and you.""I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[1] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. John 15 Here Jesus gives us the choice to remain in him or not to. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. 22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. Rom. 11 We see here that we need to stand by faith. Our part of the covenent. To say that Jesus has to be crucified over and over is not what I said. Absolutely his blood covers over all sins! But the covenent that God gave us requires us to have a heart of repentence in order to "remain in him". The ability to choose, that God gave us from the beginning when Adam and Eve chose to disobey God and were thrown out of the garden, was given to us because God wants us to stay with him because we want to. If you take away the ability to choose you you take away love. And as far as a child of God wanting to leave for Satan...I have seen those committed to Christ turn back to the world because they were unwilling to pick up their cross and deny themselves, a cost that Jesus tells us to count before we follow him (Luke 9:23). We are all subject to temptations. If we are unwilling to walk the narrow way, and try to change the things in our lives that caause us to sin, those very things will entangle us all over again and harden our hearts for God, turning us back to yhe world. Peter warns us that it will happen; 2 Peter2:20-22 -Kin |
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2 | What is eternal life? What is saved? | John 6:37 | Hank | 15384 | ||
Kin, thanks for your response. Upon reading it, I re-read my post wherein I made reference to Jesus' parable in Luke 15 regarding the lost son. Having done this, I stand by my analogy which you said was inaccurate. You seemed to have missed the point. Perhaps the fault lies in my lack of ability to state it more clearly or more convincingly..... If your position is, as it would appear, that salvation is conditional in that it is contingent upon good works performed subsequent to salvation, then you have also failed to be clear and convincing. A regenerate believer can in his walk toward santification stumble indeed and fall by the wayside. In doing so he breaks fellowship with Christ. But Christ does not break His relationship with His wayward child. The child remains forevermore a child of the King. If Christ "took back" His salvation and severed our relationship with Him every time we stumble and fall, our walk with the Lord would be a perpetual on-again, off-again experience, like blinker lights on an automobile. If our eternal security depended on us -- and the Bible soundly rejects that idea -- it would not be very secure..... Growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord is essential if we are to mature in our faith and enjoy the blessedness of fellowship with God. That is called sanctification. But sanctification is the growth process of the Christian. It comes in the wake of, but emphatically is not, salvation. --Hank | ||||||
3 | What is eternal life? What is saved? | John 6:37 | kin | 15674 | ||
Hank, Thank you for your response. A couple of things I have to clear up. One is that I dont believe salvation is based on the good works you do. My point is that sin, though forgiven, still can harden the heart of the believer if there is not an active part on the part of the christian to repent of it. Can a christian be sexually immoral? 1 Cor. 5 makes that clear. Can a christian continue to be immoral and live for God? His house is divided, he will fall! Consider these passages in Heb. 6 and Heb. 10. It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God Jesus talks about the same issue in John 15. "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned I never said that Jesus takes back his salvation every time we sin. But I hope I made it clearer that if we don't repent and actively try to change the things in our lives that cause us to sin, we will harden our hearts towards God and turn away from him, and lose our salvation. About Luke 15. Your explaination of this passage is entirerly speculation. The passage does't say that the "son will remain a son no matter what; he is forever a son; etc." But it does say in the passage below that the son "was DEAD and is ALIVE AGAIN, he was LOST and is FOUND." If the son never returned to the father (repentence) he would have remained "dead" and "lost". An explanation of this scripture outside of what it clearly says is not something I want to hang my coat on. But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!' 31 "My son, the father said, you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found." Please respond to the scriptures I showed you and give me your point of view. I look foward to hearing from you. This is good for my study! -Kin |
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4 | What is eternal life? What is saved? | John 6:37 | Hank | 15799 | ||
Kin, it is amazing to me that you would call what I said about the passage of the lost son in Luke 15 "entirely speculation." Suppose you tell me how a biological son of his one and only biological father can acquire another biological father, thus severing his relationshp to the first?...... Your citing the verses of Hebrews 6 in an effort to prove your position that the perseverence of the saints, or the eternal security of the believer, is not sound teaching comes quite as no surprise to me. I rather expected it, as in the same manner I expect Acts 2:38 from proponents of water baptism as essential to salvation. In both instances what is being done is extracting a few pet verses that SEEM to support a certain view while virtually ignoring a host of other scriptural passages that teach no such thing...... I will not attempt an expanded exegesis of your verses. Whatever I said would, in all likelihood, be much too "speculative" to suit your tastes. I will, however leave you with this thought to mull over. If the verses in Hebrews 6 teach that a person can lose his salvation, they also teach that he can never be saved a second time, which becomes tantamount to saying that whatever he did to lose his salvation was an unpardonable sin, does it not? And does that interpretation square with Jesus' definition of the unpardonable sin? And does the Hebrews passage, when you interpret it to mean that the eternal security of the believer is a false teaching, conflict with any of the following passages: John 5:24; 6:37-40; 10:27-30; Rom.5:9-10; 8:1,31-39; 1 Cor.1:4-9; Eph.4:30; Heb.7:25; 13:5; 1 Pet.1:4-5; Jude 24? --Hank | ||||||
5 | What is eternal life? What is saved? | John 6:37 | kin | 15947 | ||
Hank, What is your interpitation of Heb 3:12-15?Heb 6? Heb 10:26-39? John 15:1-17? 1 Tim. 4:16? 1 Tim. 5:8? James 1:12-13? Peter 1:8-11? 2 Peter 3:20-22? Luke 15:31-32? 1 John 1:8-10? 1 John 2:24-27? 1 John 5:16-17and Mark 3:28-29? Just to name a few. The scriptures you showed me back up what you believe if you only consider them alone. But my challenge to you is to study out these passages with an unbiased heart and praying to God for truth and wisdom. Until we consider the WHOLE Bible, the whole truth will remain to the discretion of the biased heart. Kin |
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