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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How does John 3:13 fit with Genesis 5:24 | John 3:13 | RoaringLamb | 108120 | ||
Greetings, Tim! Remember my plea for honest and fair discussion? (See #106823) You wrote: "Allow me to touch yet again upon 1 Thess. 4:14." Then immediately jumped to verse 17! Earlier, YOU focused on vs. 14, as evidence that "sleep" refers only to dead bodies, calling it your "primary point." Then I pointed out that vs. 14 says God brings those who are asleep, which - according to your own definition - could only refer to dead bodies. Then, totally IGNORING my point, you shift focus to vs. 17!? Then you say your "understanding" of vs. 17 is that "the 'spiritual' part of man returns with Christ, then their bodies are raised in v. 17" - AS IF I HAVE DENIED SUCH! My point was that - according to YOUR stipulation that "those who are asleep" refers strictly to dead bodies - v.14 which you also agreed says God brings "those who are asleep" - he would have to bring dead bodies! After I challenge the inconsistency therein, you imply that I DENIED the difference between the body and spirit! Tim, that is simply misconstruing what has been said - by me AND by you! Also, you say I answered my own question re Ecc. 9:5 and Ps. 146:4 by suggesting they're poetic, when YOU are the one who introduced the term "poetic" to this discussion. I pointed out that calling them poetic has no effect on what they are teaching. (Again, from you, silence on that point and the reasoning I presented concerning God not being the author of confusion.) Your response: "the writer of Ecclesiastes seems to have no knowledge whatsoever of man's future destiny...," suggesting he doesn't know what he's talking about. The problem with that reasoning is that it denies the Word of that says "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God..." (I don't have time to look it up, but I think it's in 2 Tim. 3:16, or thereabouts). So, are we now free to disqualify scripture that disagrees with what we believe? Tim, I believe you're sincere and seeking truth as I am, so I IMPLORE you: please consider prayerfully whether you are being honest - if not with me - at least with yourself, and are "rightly dividing the word of truth"! It's not enough to say something is "my understanding" when holding up ideas as sound doctrine! |
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2 | How does John 3:13 fit with Genesis 5:24 | John 3:13 | Morant61 | 108126 | ||
Greetings RoaringLamb! I apologize if my post was not as clear as it ought to have been my friend. I work nights, so when I post in the morning I am usually pretty tired. So, allow me to back up a bit. Here is my understanding. 1) Sleep is a methaphor for death, not a literal description. It is based upon how the body 'appears'. 2) My contention is that v. 14 refers to the spirits of those who died coming back with Jesus when He returns, while v. 17 refers to their bodies being raised. So, I will ask you again my friend: Who or what comes back with Jesus in v. 14? It can't refer to the bodies, because they are not raised until v. 17. Finally, as far as the poetic nature of the two verses you cited goes, you did mention 'poetic' in your post. I believe that we would both admit that 'poetry' is to be taken differently than narrative. For instance, when Jesus said that He was the bread of life, He did not mean for us to think that He was a giant bag of Wonder bread! :-) Scripture uses symbolic language many times. My contention is that 'sleep' is best understood in this way, and that all of the references which speak of the dead being alert and aware are literal. So, instead of simply telling me where I am wrong, how about dealing with some of these verses that you keep promising to deal with! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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