Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197729 | ||
Greetings, Tim, Tim: First of all, welcome to the forum! Michael: Thanks. I’m looking forward to exploring the Scriptures with you. Michael T. wrote: "Since the Scriptures confirm (refer Ephesians 1:3-11 and Romans 8:29-30) that Election and Pre-destination to salvation are Divinely-accomplished Facts which were completed by God the Father from before the creation of the universe, this itself proves that Christ's atonement was always intended to be limited; i.e. not universal in its practical extent." Tim Moran replied: “The problem with this statement is that it is based upon assumption concerning the meanings of these terms rather that what Scripture actually says. For instance, did Christ only die for the 'elect'? Scripture never says such a thing.” Michael T.: You’re mistaken, because you’ve a mere cursory consideration to these passages of Scripture. I suggest that you re-examine those two passages of Scripture’ namely, Ephesians 1:3-11 and Romans 8:28-30, and also consider their implications. These two passages conclusively confirm that Election and Pre-destination are Divinely-established facts, and prove that salvation in all its aspects and the extent thereof have always been determined and governed by the sovereign will of GOD. Please also carefully consider 2 Timothy 1:9; and 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and their implications. Are you aware of Christ’s statements in the Scriptures that declare and confirm that salvation is limited in extent to those whom God the Father has given to Christ? For example, refer to John 17:2 Gospel of John 17:1-2 - “These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify Thy Son, that Thy Son also may glorify Thee: As Thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as Thou hast given to Him.” Thus Christ Himself, in His full Divine authority as the only-begotten Son, declares and confirms that the practical extent of salvation by grace is limited to all those whom GOD the Father has given to the Son. It therefore follows that in respect of all who perish in their unbelief and sin, that it never was the will of God that any of those perished ones that they should be saved, for had it been so, the Father would have given those people to the Son. But He did not do so. Therefore they all inevitably perished. Although many people are of the mistaken opinion that “universal salvation” is God’s will, this idea is denied and refuted by Christ and His Apostles in the Scriptures. Tim Moran also wrote: “Scripture does say: 1 Timothy 2:3-6 – 3 ‘This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.’” My reply: Quite apart from the fact that you’ve obviously omitted to consider 1 Timothy 2:3-6 in its context * and * in the context of * All * the Scriptures, you seem to be assuming that the term “all men” must always only mean everyone of the entire human race ever to have existed from Creation till the end of time without any exception. Please confirm. If so, i.e. if you’re advocating the fanciful theories of “universal atonement” and “universal salvation,” you then have the problem of trying to explain why the LORD God is blatantly incompetent and manifestly incapable of accomplishing that which you assume He wants and-or desires to do; which, according to you, is to save everyone of the entire human race in all generations from Adam and Eve to the end of the world without any exception. If, according to your universalistic spin on 1 Timothy 2:3-6, God wants to save every individual person of the entire human race in all generations from Adam and Eve to the end of the world without any exception, how do you reconcile your theory of “universal salvation” with the fact that in the centuries from Creation till Christ’s incarnation in 6 BC, innumerable millions of people perished in unbelief and sin and were justly condemned to eternal punishment in Hell to bear the penalty of their sins. Surely a god that according to you, wants everyone without any exception to be saved, could have and should have saved those sinners now in Hell. But he-it did not do so. Why not? I await your explanation with much interest. Remainder of reply to follow. Regards, Michael |
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2 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | stjohn | 197799 | ||
M.T.-- Anyone, that would refer to God as, he-it, is no Christian, has no relationship with God, and could not have even the slightest notion of what His word is talking about, that, sir, is blasphemy! no regards John |
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3 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197822 | ||
Greetings John, You said: “Anyone that would refer to God as, he-it, is no Christian, has no relationship with God, and could not have even the slightest notion of what His word is talking about, that, sir, is blasphemy!” You’ve obviously missed the point which I made in my earlier message. I was replying to another person who erroneously assumes that God has promised to or is under obligation to save every individual person of the entire human race from Creation onwards without any exception. That theory is totally foreign to the Scriptures. The LORD God revealed in His Scriptures is the Saviour of al of His elect and predestinated people and of more than these. [Refer Ephesians 1:3-11; 2 Timothy 1:9; Romans 8:28-30.] A “universal saviour god” does not exist. It is a gross distortion and that is why I referred to that false deity as an “it.” Regards, Michael T. |
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4 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | stjohn | 197857 | ||
Hi Michael T, Sorry; :-( ... I missed that connection, ... my apologies sir. And I agree! There is no such thing as universal salvation. And I'm pretty sure Brother Tim would agree too. I know He would not refer to God as "he-it", so that is probably why I missed that. Perhaps you have misunderstood Him as well but, He will respond for Himself. God bless John |
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5 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | Michael T. | 197872 | ||
Hi, John, You said: “Sorry; :-( ... I missed that connection, ... my apologies sir.” No problem. I'm glad to know that you now know what I was driving at. On reflection, I should have expressed myself more clearly. You also said: “And I agree! There is no such thing as universal salvation. And I'm pretty sure Brother Tim would agree too . . . “ I hope so. However, universalist-oriented misconstructions will often occur whenever Scripture verses containing, for example, the terms “all,” “all men,” “world” and “the whole world” etc. are taken in isolation without any consideration of the local contexts thereof, nor any consideration for the context of the entire Scriptures. Conversely, when exegesis of the Scriptures is consistently undertaken on a responsible contextual basis as described above, the theories of “universal redemption,” “universal atonement,” “universal salvation” etc. are always all exposed as fallacious and thus heretical. Regards, Michael |
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6 | Predestination | Eccl 6:10 | stjohn | 197875 | ||
Yes, well it's good to know know that you know that, thank you, Michael. God bless John |
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