Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Aliehs | 22383 | ||
You said that I said that our only duty was to know God/Christ better. What I really said was: "Our ONLY "duty" / "responsibility" under the new covenant is to know more about Jesus, respond to His work on the cross, and PRAISE Him for EVERY good and perfect gift - that includes the gift of our righteousness which cannot be attained totally or in part, but which can only be RECEIVED totally. PERFECT gift." And regarding all those things you listed which we should "do" - I agree with you on your point that "it is not done under our own power, but they are marks of a true believer." Marks because of a response. "1. We are saved by grace, through faith, apart from works. This is the basis of our salvation, and it is completely a work of God (Ephesians 2:8,9)." I agree. Salvation is a gift. "2. We are saved for the purpose of glorifying God through our good works (Ephesians 2:10)." That verse says "....to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Ministry work, perhaps? Run the church as a body? Let run it after His heart ("good works")? Fulfil our calling? "3. Law has never been a means to make one righteous, since all it does it shut man up under sin (Galatians 3:22) and reveal God's perfect standard for us (Psalm 19:7). The Law, while being perfect in itself, has never made anyone perfect (Hebrews 7:11, 18, 21)." Agreed. However, all things aside, if anyone is ABLE to fulfil the law perfectly, that would be one way to righteousness (law of righteousness). But you and I know, it doesn't work and we can't go that road to righteouseness. The OTHER way to righteousness then, is by faith and in recepit of it as a GIFT, not something to attain for since we have already attainted it by faith (righteousness of faith). Romans 9:30-32 "4. The good works which God empowers us to do for His sake are marks of our new life in Christ. A "faith" that does not demonstrate itself in works over time is a dead faith, which does not save (James 2:14-26)." One thing to note about James when reading his letter is that it was written BEFORE Paul's. A lot of practicalities in it, but it is milk since he did not have a full understanding of grace as Paul did. This is not to mean that we don't read James, but that we should be aware about his understanding of grace compared to Paul's. "Please show me ONE God-honoring work that we can do which is not in keeping with God's moral law." Well...I think the Pharisees are very good at doing ALL God-honouring work that is keeping with God's moral law.....so no, I can't show you ONE which is not keeping with God's moral. But well...we know what Jesus thought about them... "Paul, Peter, and James did not consider the law useless for the Christian. Not considering the Law obsolete, they preached the Law to believers:" They DID??!!!! They preached the LAW to believers???!!! Tim 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; So if the law is not made for a righteous man, how can it be made for us who are already made righteous in Christ? Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 6But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way,.... 8....."The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):.....10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. "Lastly, we have the example of Christ Himself. How did He describe His perfect life? As "fulfilling" the law rather than "abolishing" it (Matthew 5:17-18) We should absolutely see Jesus as our example, but that example he set for us is complete and perfect obedience to the moral law of the Father." Yes, He has fulfiled the law so that I don't have to fulfil it myself when I'm in Him. The law is not abolished because it's already written in my heart. That example he set for us is made complete and perfect because of total reliance on the Spirit. THAT'S the example we should follow - reliance on the Spirit. "causing the believer to contantly rely on God's grace and forgiveness." Rely on God's forgiveness? But He has already forgiven my past, present and FUTURE sins....so I should instead THANK Him for it. After all, when He died for my sins, He was dying for ALL sins of mine which are "future" since I wasn't even on this earth yet. |
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2 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Hank | 22403 | ||
Allehs, I believe a careful reading of the Gospels will show that Jesus' condemnation of the Pharisees was not also a condemnation of the Law or of keeping the Law. The Pharisees of Jesus' time were sticklers at keeping their own corrupted, added-to version of the Law, which amounted to little than an exterior show of piety. It was this adulteration and corruption of the Law and the hyprocrisy that accompanied it that Jesus condemned....... As to your observation that James' understanding about grace was inferior to Paul's -- well, since all Scripture is God-breathed, are we to infer that somehow God was fumbling a bit when He inspired the James writing but finally got it right when he spoke through Paul? --Hank | ||||||
3 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Aliehs | 22515 | ||
Hi Hank, the question I was answering from Joe was: "Please show me ONE God-honoring work that we can do which is not in keeping with God's moral law." and I gave the example that the Pharisees were all doing God-honoring work which are in keeping of God's moral law. Meaning, ACTION wise, they did it. But their hearts are not in God at all. Likewise, we can ALL do God-honoring work which are in keeping of God's moral law, but if are hearts are not in doing it out of love for God, but instead doing it out of "religion", then we've missed the mark too. And about James (I write this to Joe too) - did I say that his words are NOT TRUE??? No, I did not. What I was trying to say is that he's not as strong a preacher on grace as Paul is - it is not to say that his understanding about it is out of line! Even in the church today, we have different preachers with different revelations in different areas. One might be good at preaching in the area of grace but not in the area of the end times (which is not to say he DOESN'T understand end times) and vice-versa. Yet BOTH revelations are from God! So with Paul and James, we first have to have a strong understanding of grace (from Paul) before we can understand how to work (from James). In all of Paul's letters, it ALWAYS starts with building the understanding of grace BEFORE he moves on to how we should really work (under grace). And no wonder that Paul's letters are first before James even though James wrote his first... . I'm sure God wants us to understand our FULL righteous standing in Christ first in order to know how we should work. Not through self-effort, but through Spirit-effort. We cannot change ourselves through the power of our will, but we can use our will power to make a decision to set aside time to seek God. |
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4 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Reformer Joe | 22610 | ||
You wrote: "and I gave the example that the Pharisees were all doing God-honoring work which are in keeping of God's moral law." The Pharisees were working all right, but it certainly not God-honoring work, for the very reason you stated: their hearts were corrupt. Let's see what God the Son had to say about how the Pharisees' work honored Him: "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." --John 8:44 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness." --Matthew 23:27 "And He said to them, 'Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: "THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME."'" --Mark 7:6 The Pharisees did not honor God at all with their works. It is not because they worked that they were condemned, but because of the fact that their motives behind their actions were not of faith and that they were self-seeking hypocrites blind to their own unrighteousness. Their works disgusted God, just as much as the "altruistic" and "humanitarian" works of atheists just incur greater wrath because they are done to bring glory to man and not Him. That's the problem with your Scofield/Ryrie view of the Bible. You are right to condemn legalistic self-righteousness. However, you go too far to the other extreme where any call of God for His people to actually DO something is placed in the category of "not for us." "Be like Jesus" does not mean rejecting God's moral law, for Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly in thought, word, and deed. Even the greatest commandment tells us we are to love the Lord our God with all our STRENGTH. You will take Paul's grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone and swallow it whole, as well you should. You are more than happy to embrace Philippians 2:13, but going back a verse means that we would have to acknowledge our own God-aided participation in the process of sanctification. In a previous post you even said something to me along the lines of "work out your own salvation if you want," as if that were unscriptural! They are put there, TOGETHER, for a reason. Christians are characterized by their works. The thing that troubles me the most about your view is that you have to basically take virtually EVERYTHING Jesus said and stamp a label of "Old Testament" on it to get those troublesome, cost-of-discipleship chapters in all four gospels. Doesn't it bother you in the slightest that Ryrie-esque dispensationalists completely disregard so many of the very words that our Lord and Savior spoke? The gospel is the same from Genesis 3 to revelation. Your view requires you diminishing the importance of James, Hebrews, 1 John, 1 and 2 Peter, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John in favor of half of the prison epistles and part of Romans. And forget about the Old Testament. Too much law for a "New Testament believer" to stomach. In short, you have abandoned legalism and moved to the other, equally-wrong extreme of antinomianism. During this exchange I have seen you reinterpret clear Scripture passages to fit your view (such as 1 Peter 1:14-16) and try to paint me as a legalist because I have the audacity to claim that the Christian life depicted in the Bible is one of costly discipleship rather than easy-street "resting in Jesus." This is precisely why I abandoned the theology you embrace years ago; you simply have to ignore or do too much damage to God's Holy Word to maintain it. Justification is a free gift of God's grace; sanctification is also wholly a work of God's grace. It is not a contradiction, however, to say that the Christian life, properly lived, is WORK. --Joe! |
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5 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Aliehs | 22866 | ||
Hi Joe, I didn't mean for this to become such a debate. I appreciate you sharing with me all your points indeed, and yes, I will go deeper into the word to understand the true meaning of righteousness and what is expected from God. I'll not discuss this with you anymore as I think it has got more than it's fair share of discussion here :o). I will however, leave this thread with the following: [Kings Site on the Net] SCRIPTURE THOUGHT Scripture Thought for the Day Month 11 Thought 13 of 25 Everyone Who Practices Righteousness Is Born Of Him! 1 John 2 Let Truth Abide in You 24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life. 26These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. The Children of God 28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. Christian truth is fixed and unalterable. If we stay faithful to the truth, we continue to experience intimate communion with God and Christ and persevere to eternal life. John is not denying the importance of gifted teachers in the church but indicates that neither those teachers nor those believers are dependent on human wisdom or the opinions of men for the truth. God's Holy Spirit guards and guides the truth believer into all the truth. Whenever John refers to abiding, he is referring to persevering in the faith of salvation which is evidence of being a true believer. The hope of Christ's return produces the effect of continual abiding in every true believer as we long for the glorious future prepared for us. Abiding signifies a permanent remaining in Christ and guarantees the believer's hope. Those who truly abide, continue in the faith and in fellowship with the saints. Salvation is eternal because of the Lord's side--He holds us and because of our side--we persevere in faith and obedience. In the case of salvation, God sovereignly saves but not apart from personal faith from the one He saves. In the case of sanctification, God conforms us to His Son but not apart from obedience. The hope of Christ's return not only sustains faith but makes righteousness a habit. Those truly born again as God's children have their heavenly Father's righteous nature. As a result, they will display characteristics of God's righteousness. John looks from effect (righteous behavior) to cause (being truly born again) to affirm that righteous living is the proof of being born again. Time to Think: If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him! Bless you, Joe. You're a dear brother in Christ :o). |
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