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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 204974 | ||
Hello Tamara, Do I believe in soul sleep? Well, I wouldn't call it soul sleep. Usually the only ones who call it that are the ones who don't believe in it. I call it death. I don't get confused about "sleep" because of it being an idiom for death either. You're point on that is right, it was a euphemism. However, I believe that when you die, you ACTUALLY die, not just your body. You mention 2 Cor 5:8 and Phil 1:23. These are commonly taken to mean that once you leave the body you are present with the Lord. You also say that I have to read into it soul sleep. The problem with that is we (you, me, pretty much everyone) reads into Scripture whatever their theology is anyway. Some admit to this, others deny it, but we all do it, even though it is unintentional. Let me give you a little example. Rom 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Well, here we usually read into this verse that "death" means separation from God or hell. We all read into plenty of verses, we should just try to do this as little as possible, but we will all still do it. Now, you say that Paul was not meaning a 2000 year gap. You might be right. I don't have all the answers, that is for sure. However, if Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven, then how is it that we go to be with Him upon our death if no man has ascended to heaven (John 3:13, Acts 2:34 - David). That being said, when one dies then for them it is instantaneous. They don't know they are dead. It is sort of like anesthesia. You close your eyes and when you open them you are in the afterlife. You also mention that "Paul does not have any gap of time in mind here or he would have said so". Paul says neither and is quiet on the matter. Job says there is a gap of time (Job 14:7-17). It is definitely related as a time between death and resurrection. Anyway, I am rambling on. Soul sleep (or death as I call it) is really a minor point to me. It has much larger implications, but soul sleep is not too important really. But one more thing, if death is really the result of our sin. If that was really part of the curse God placed on Adam and Eve. Then what kind of curse is it if we don't really die? We just live on forever somewhere else right? You see, we still believe the very first lie don't we. "Ye shall not surely die: " (Gen 3:4). Take it for what you will. To avoid a debate I will let you have the last post. If you would like to discuss each other's points for more consideration you can email me at jamison2u@gmail.com jamison |
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2 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | Tamara Brewington | 205107 | ||
Dear Jamison, I was under the impression that you wanted to stop posting and go off the forum and discuss this without going any further. I must be mistaken somehow in what your intention was concerning your intention to avoid a debate. I looked at your five scriptures and found that only two of them are about your view, the rest don't fit. Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might; for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol where you are going. Here in both verses Solomon makes a contrast between the dead and the living about what they will know about the activities of life. The emphasis here is not on the dead not being aware, it is on the dead no longer having any cognizance of the affairs of life. The affairs of life a running theme through out Ecclesiastes and Solomon is making a point about the vanity of death as being without the same quality as life. And that is the context of this passage, not soul sleep, to say otherwise is to divorce an intrepretation from the author's intent in writting is constrained to the contrast between the quality of life with the vanity of death. Job 14:10-12 But man dies and lies prostrate. Man expires, and where is he? A water evaporates from the sea, and a river becomes parched and dried up, so man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep. The context of this exerpt from Job 14 is that back up in verse 1 Job speaks of the futility of life. :1 Man, who is born of woman, is short lived and full of turmoil. Like a flower that withers. He also flees like a shadow and does not remain. That first verse is the whole theme for the entire 14th chapter of Job, everthing else is related to and comes out of that verse. Verses 10 through 12 are talking about the futility of life because it ends in death and the dead no longer are roused from the grave and to live. The author's intent in writting about death is constrained to the futility of life because it ends in death, and is not about soul sleep. more to come, Tamara |
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