Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | Swordman007 | 68996 | ||
Hello, justme. Yes, you are correct. I am not against monogamy or polygamy. As to my being the first person bringing this out in a well thought out manner, well, I would say that some of our fellow believers in this forum would disagree with you on that point. (smile) That's ok. One eventaully has to get to the point that we can all agree that we disagree. In regard to your questions, I would never suggest that a man take a second wife into the family without the full consent of the first wife. Although the churches in this country do not today find this to be acceptable, I openly challenge the idea that man-made institutions we call "churches" have a God-given authority to add to God's definition of marriage by saying that a "license" is now a part of how we define marriage. If that "license" were such a great addition to the definition of marriage, then it certainly has failed most miserably to prove its value. Organized religion (churches) in this country tend to "tow the party line" (democratically defined system of morality and theology). As such, they then logically breed prejudices within the minds of their adherents that seem perfectly logical to the average congregant follower, but is a serious departure from the actual teachings within scripure. This comes as no surprise to those of us who have taken several steps back from the mind control religion tends to exert upon its followers, and have instead allow scripture to speak for itself. Although I am a Southern Baptist, I am FIRST a follower of Christ and His word. This does not make me any better than anyone else. Simply because I do not buy into all the socially engineered theologies that the Southern Baptist convention (and all the other "denominations" for that matter) has chosen to accept as given does not mean that I consider all their beliefs to be false. To address your comments about practicality, you are right that most American women do not find a man's having plural wives to be acceptable to them personally. However, many women in America DO consider an extended family to be not only acceptable, but even preferable. I have spoken with quite a number of them myself. From the economical standpoint, it can be even MORE beneficial than monogamy. I personally know a family with three wives. One wife cares for and teaches the children during the workday while the other two wives and the huband work outside the home. (They simply refuse to turn their children over to a public school system that is very hostile toward family and moral absolutes.) With three incomes, they live debt free in their HUGE, brand new home. To look at the few bad examples of polygamous families in Utah and other places, and the abuses therein, and then use that broad brush in painting ALL polygamy to be unacceptable on that basis is without any merit whatsoever. I could point to FAR more incest, adultery, abuse and abandonment within monogamy than you could ever find within polygamy. Although that really is not saying anything because of sheer numbers, it does make a point about applying standards against what one does not like that he is not willing to apply to his own life. Does that mean that monogamy is therefore an unacceptable form of marriage because of all the abuses we can see within its existence? Not at all. People drive drunk. Do we then do away with cars? I think maybe you see this now with a little more light. It is agreed that incest and all other forms of immorality (abuse, abandonment, etc.) are against Biblical standards. What is staggering is that none of my opponents have answered my observation of how inconsistent our laws really are, and yet they enjoy trying to use those very corrupt laws as a reason for a man being limited to only one wife. Our laws allow a man to impregnate multiple women living in different homes without his having to exercise financial responsibility for his actions, but the man who seeks to acquire a license for all his wives, therefore exercising responsibility for his family, is considered to be a terrible law-breaker. The hypocrisy of all this is self-evident. In Christ Jesus Don Dean |
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2 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | Reformer Joe | 69002 | ||
You wrote: 'Although the churches in this country do not today find this to be acceptable..." Nor does the state, to whom we are to submit as well... '...I openly challenge the idea that man-made institutions we call "churches" have a God-given authority to add to God's definition of marriage by saying that a "license" is now a part of how we define marriage.' It isn't the "licenses" that define a marriage. I haven't seen anyone else but you even bring up the license. However, multiple marriages are against the law in the United States, and unless that is a commandment which would cause you to disobey God (and you yourself have acknowledged that polygamy is not a COMMAND), we are to glorify God by submission to the authority He has established. And speaking of established authority, the Church was established by Jesus Christ and is not a "man-made institution." We are also called to submit to the church's authority in the Lord. You added: "Organized religion (churches) in this country tend to "tow the party line" (democratically defined system of morality and theology)." Please point out ANY concrete examples of a tradition of polygamous churches since Pentecost. The United States has not exerted any influence over the monogamous marriage structure of the church. It has been that way for 2000 years. "This comes as no surprise to those of us who have taken several steps back from the mind control religion tends to exert upon its followers, and have instead allow scripture to speak for itself." That's funny; the Jehovah's Witnesses have told me the same thing. Ever think that you acting as an individual may have gotten Scripture wrong here? That is why Christianity is a corporate entity, not a democratic free-for-all where your "interpretation" of Scripture is correct because you say it is. The Lord established the CHURCH for a reason, and you are doing nothing but pointing out how you despise its authority and its historical position regarding what Scripture teaches. --Joe! |
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3 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | Swordman007 | 69057 | ||
You are right, the state does object to a man acquiring a LICENSE for more than one wife at a time. It is also true that a piece of paper from the state is not a part of God's definition of marriage. That "license" serves only ONE purpose: It allows you the legal right to claim "Married" on your tax forms. It also gives the state a level of authority over a marriage that God never made allowances for. To my way of thinking, the state has no right to dabble in a marriage. Now, can you show me where God demanded that we submit to laws that do not exist? What state requires that a man acquire a "license" for ANY woman he is married to in accordance to God's definition of marriage? I would like to see this if you can think of one. You are assuming that a man having more than one wife in accordance with God's definition of marriage is somehow breaking state law, and yet you have not made specific mention of one. General reference does not inform anyone about anything. Please be more specific. YOU are the one who made indirect reference to the license. When you made grandiose statement about it allegedly being a violation of state law for a man to have more than one wife, then you can ONLY be referring to that LICENSE. A man having a LICENSE for more than one wife is the ONLY state and federal law of marriage a man can break. Who is fooling who here? The state only regognizes multiple marriages IF you have attempted to acquire more than one LICENSE at a time. You then said, "However, multiple marriages are against the law in the United States," ONLY if you attempt acquiring a LICENSE for more than one wife at a time. So, what is your point? "...and unless that is a commandment which would cause you to disobey God (and you yourself have acknowledged that polygamy is not a COMMAND), we are to glorify God by submission to the authority He has established." You can assume that the state and federal governement has made some unknown law about a man being limited to only one wife outside of that license all you want, but then you are only spitting into the wind. I can tell you right now that the ONLY KNOWN laws against a man having more than one wife OUTSIDE of (not AGAINST) the legal system of SOME states is "cohabitation" laws. Do YOU live in a state with cohabitation laws? Do you even KNOW if your state has such laws? Have you even checked before making declarations of assumed knowledge of authoirty? You then declared, "And speaking of established authority, the Church was established by Jesus Christ and is not a "man-made institution." We are also called to submit to the church's authority in the Lord." Your attempt at lumping our multitudes of INSTITUTIONAL church ORGANIZATIONS into Christ's definition of His Church is less than impressive, my friend. If you can show me where Christ declared that we are to obey any of our man-made institutions that are defined by buildings, parking lots, plush offices, chandeliers, staffing organization, pews and a pulpit, then I am all ears. (smile) As to your charge of my saying anything about a "tradition of polygamous churches since Pentecost," well, you would have to honestly quote me saying anything about that issue without making something up that I did not say. Your misguided powers of reasoning are quite astounding. If the best you can do in trying to win your case is attempting to cast the relevance of my statements down to the level of the Jehovah's Witness beliefs, then you really have nothing to say of any real account. Can you show me ONE PLACE where the Jehovah's Witnesses factor into this discussion? Their beliefs are theologcially refutable. All you have dealt with is the SECULAR system of licenses and laws. You did not make ANY mention of theological relevance in this message pertaining to marriage. In Christ Jesus Don |
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4 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | Reformer Joe | 69164 | ||
"If you can show me where Christ declared that we are to obey any of our man-made institutions that are defined by buildings, parking lots, plush offices, chandeliers, staffing organization, pews and a pulpit, then I am all ears." Romans 13 1 Peter 2 Titus 3 --Joe! |
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5 | Does God endorse polygamy? | 1 Kin 11:3 | Face | 175645 | ||
So maybe the actual church Swordman goes to allows polygynous marriage....... Is he OK then? After all, if he does have several wives, and did not get state licenses for more than one of them, he breaks no civil law. And if the church he goes to allows polygyny, then he breaks no laws of his church, thus is under their authority. And Scripture read as a whole does not condemn polygyny, so therefore he has not sinned, either. Where, then, is the problem? |
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