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NASB | Ephesians 4:9 (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Ephesians 4:9 (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had previously descended [from the heights of heaven] into the lower parts of the earth? |
Subject: Dr. B. What does aggelos mean? |
Bible Note: Dear Dr. B, I do not see where the context of 2 Peter 2:4 requires that "aggelos" mean men. Peter lists out several groups, and "sinning angels" is one of those groups. There is no requirment that these groups be equal or the same. I would need you to show be a detailed exegesis of this passage detailing how this context requires these "angels" to be men. Our promises are sure and sound, that sin will be forever removed from us. The Bible does not spell out in so many words His dispensation to the angels. That does not concern us. I find the parallel passage in Jude interesting: Jude 1:6 "And those angels not having kept their first place, but having deserted their dwelling-place, He has kept in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of a great Day;" What I find most interesting about this passage within the context of this discussion is the reference to the "dwelling place" that these "angels" left. It is in the Greek "oiketerion", used only one other time in the Bible, in 2 Cor 5:2 of our heavenly bodies. These angels left their heavenly bodies. If they were mere men, where did they get their "oiketerion", that they could leave them? 2 Cor 5:2 "For also in this we groan, greatly desiring to be clothed with our "dwelling place" out of Heaven," Speaking of parallel passages, the parallel passage to your proof-text in Luke, where Matthew describes the same conversation Jesus had concerning the resurrection, and this comparison to angels, would seem to indicate that Jesus was comparing people to the "angels of God", or those that had not sinned. I wouldn't use that fact as a foundation for doctrine, but it can be pointing us in a direction. As I follow this thread, I find myself wondering what you think about this, and so I ask you: Who is Satan? Who are "the devil and his angels"? Who was it that came before God in Job? Who does Michael "and his angels" make war with in heaven: Rev 12:7 And war occurred in Heaven, Michael and his angels making war against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels made war, Rev 12:8 but they did not have strength, nor yet was place found for them in Heaven. Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent being called devil, and, Satan; he deceiving the whole habitable world was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Are we to read this and think that these are mere men? Love in Christ, Mark |