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NASB | John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | John 15:5 "I am the Vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in Me and I in him bears much fruit, for [otherwise] apart from Me [that is, cut off from vital union with Me] you can do nothing. |
Subject: Human Power? |
Bible Note: Young lady, please do not put words into my mouth... er... posts. "Barge in and thrust Himself?" Not only have you failed to properly represent my position, you used words specifically chosen to appeal to emotion. Furthermore, you didn't deal with the verses I gave in support. The Lord has given us minds and His Spirit to help us rightly divide His word. I never have, never will, and never could say that God forces Himself on anyone. God holds man responsible for his choices. I am sure you would agree with that, but you'll be puzzling over why I would agree with that. I will try to explain. Please refer to the account of God's wrath in Rev 6:15-17 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? We agree that the people in this passage are not believers. Notice that there is not one word of regret or repentance as they face God's judgment. In fact, if you look anywhere else in scripture for places where the lost are confronted with Divine retribution, there is only sorrow at what they are suffering. Even at the most dire time in their existence, they do not call out for forgiveness! (See Luke 16:24, 13:26; Mat 7:22, 22:12, 25:25, 44; Rev 16:9, 18:10, 19; etc.) Why do the lost refuse to submit the Lord ? It stems from the fact that they have no desire to do so. Every man makes choices based on what he deems to be good for himself at any time. The will is the mind making choices. The mind combines knowledge, emotion, experience, and inclination as it generates choices. However, no one ever chooses anything that they deem is bad for them. As Christ pointed out, our first and deepest love is for ourselves. We make choices in the direction of what we see as "good," and away from choices we see as "bad." Note that I do not mean to use the words good and bad in their moral sense, but from our own minds alone. So, no one can force you to do something you don't want to do. You will say to me, "What about at the point of a gun?" I still say the same thing: No one can force you to do something you don't want to do. In the case of the gun-pointing example, your choice to comply with the directions of the person wielding the weapon is influenced by your desire to stay alive and avoid pain. Now, a crazy person might jump out into traffic, etc. But even in that case, they are choosing what they deem to be best at the moment. Now someone will bring up suicide. Suicide is, in my estimation, the supreme act of self love. It always comes out of feelings that a person is in intolerable circumstances that, in their estimation, they do not deserve. Most people think that a suicide victim hates themselves. But think about it. I say, "My wife has left me, my car broke down, my dog ran away, I'm going to shoot myself." What I'd be saying is that I love myself too much to tolerate this situation. You see, if I hated myself, I'd say, "My wife has left me, my car broke down, my dog ran away, I can't wait for the next bad thing to happen!" Okay, so how does all this relate to the offer of salvation? In the Fall, we lost the ability to choose what was good from God's point of view. Adam and Eve imputed evil or deceit to God's heart. They chose to take matters in their own hands, believing the superiority of their own choices over God's. From then on they made their own laws instead of finding happiness in keeping God's law. The record shows that this tendency persists with us through this very day. Left to our own devices, we will not choose God's way, but our own way. We are spiritually dead. Therefore, God must restore that ability -- that spiritual deadness -- to enable a person to choose the things of God. This is why that discussion on the "ordo solutis" was so important. Only when God supernaturally intervenes through the act of regeneration are we able to respond to Him in obedience. The unregenerate man lacks the ability. The regenerate man has that ability and will always choose the only sane thing, which is to obey God in obedience to the gospel. This is the doctrine of election you see all over the scriptures. God chooses His own and makes their calling effectual through regeneration. There is nothing of "barging in" or "thrusting Himself" in any of this. Consequently, God's holiness remains intact, His awesome mercy is demonstrated, and His justice is satisfied. In a subsequent post to this one I will properly exegete our Lord's message to the Laodicean saints. |