Subject: Two "wills" of God? |
Bible Note: Greetings John! It never ceases to amaze me how two people can see things so differently! :-) We agree on some of your points. I too believe in human depravity. I too believe that if God just left us in our sinful condition, we would have no hope. Where we differ though is the question of whether 'spiritually dead' means 'unable to respond'. Laying aside the issue of God's drawing of the lost, the whole argument of Romans 1 rests upon 'spiritually dead' people being able to recognize (and reject) spiritual truth. Rom. 1:18-21 says, "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God?s invisible qualities?his eternal power and divine nature?have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened." How did these 'spiritually dead' people surpress (v. 18) the truth if they did not know it? How could it be plain (v. 19) to them? How could they clearly see (v. 20) these things and be without excuse (v. 20) if 'spiritual dead' means what Calvin taught? How could they be said to know (v. 21) God? The verses you quoted do an excellent job of showing where we stand apart from Christ - utterly depraved and sinful. But, Christ doesn't leave us in that state. He draws all men to Him. Nothing in the verses you quoted rule out the possibility of depraved people being able to accept or reject the grace of God when God Himself begins to draw them. It is an assumption of Calvin that 'spiritually dead' means unable to respond. Yet, if this is true, then Romans 1 is meaningless. The pagan man of Romans 1 stands condemned precisely because he knew God and yet choose to worship created things rather than God - thus he is without excuse. One thing is for sure, we sure see God and His word very differently! :-) Oh well, we can still be brothers in Christ! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |