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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How to "win the world" ? | Bible general Archive 2 | Morant61 | 105458 | ||
Greetings EdB! I'll try to get to all the questions! ;-) What I have been doing is small group discipleship. The pastor teaches the new members classes. Some of what you mention is a part of our small group experience, while some is not. We do stress growth and witness quite a bit. But, the people that I have been working with have grown into the positions they are now filling. And, yes, they are sharing their faith very actively. Most of the new converts in our church are coming from these relatively new converts as they have grown in Christ. Now, we aren't a 'large' church, so the pastor does know everyone. :-) But, we are like most churches in that we have a committed core which I would say are disciples, and we have a large group who simply attend church. The unusual part about our church is that most of our committed core are realitively new believers. As far as Willow Creek is concerned, their small group structure allows the kind of relationships that you mention. Obviously, in a large congregation, everyone can't know everyone else. But, the small group leaders serve as under shepherds, ministrying to the needs of those in their group. So, the senior pastor may not know every single individual, but every individual is being pastored by someone. One of the best discipleship programs that I have been exposed to is from one of the pastors in my former denomination of the United Brethren in Christ. It is a two year intensive program which focuses mostly on Bible knowledge and spiritual disciplines for the first year, and then on ministry opportunties the second year. It is the people in our small groups though who are growing, serving, and sharing. And, they are mostly definitely turned on and sold out for Christ! :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | How to "win the world" ? | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 105460 | ||
Tim Then let me state what your doing is the exception and not the rule. I also suspect the discipleship and mentoring you received is what influenced you to go into the ministry. Of course there is always a core group in every church the old 20 80 principal but as Mommapbs said she attends a church of 1000 and 5 or 6 show up for prayer. As for the Willow Creek church again I can not say what they are doing first hand but I have had experience with people coming out of a similar background. We knew one man that attended a rather large church with many home groups patterned directly off of Willow Creek. His son got into a little trouble and their attorney suggested that his pastor be present to offer character references. the family attended the church the 5 years regularly and the previous 3 years on and off. They had been in the home study program. The son attended both youth group and youth church. When the father went to the church to see the senior pastor he could not. As a side bar the father saw the pastor that very day out riding his Harley Hog motorcycle with his black leather vest that shows he is a "regular guy." He then asked the youth pastor to serve as reference. The youth pastor said he could not remember the son therefore could not stand for him. He went to the home group pastor and asked for his support we was turned down and told his home group leader was advised due to liability conflicts not to get involved. End result after attending 5 years solid and the 3 years previous to that on and off he could no one in the seeker church that would stand in court as a character witness of the son. I knew the boy an can say he was in fact a good kid. I'm I saying Willow creek and home groups are wrong no. But they aren't the panacea of the church that many make them to be. It takes disciple makers to disciple and make a group of committed individuals. I would guess if asked the same question to the clergy of this country, "Are you making disciples?" An honest answer would result in less than 5 percent saying yes. The "experts" tell us that since 76 the church has not grown and any new grow experienced in the church is merely the trading of people. That new converts merely replace those that die or leave. Be blessed my brother EdB |
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3 | How to "win the world" ? | Bible general Archive 2 | SpinyNorman73 | 105869 | ||
As a new visitor to this site I have enjoyed reading these posts and look forward to reading more. One thing concerns me. I see a lot of generalizing going on. Is not the expression "AMERICAN CHURCH" itself an oxymoron? Take just for one example this family who has trouble finding a member of the pastoral staff to counsel them or give a character reference. Does this mean every "american curch" is like this? No it does not. It sounds to me like this man needs to prayerfully consider discussing this serious matter with the head pastor or find a new congregation to join. The phrase "american church" troubles me for I was under the impression we were to be a global church. The one thing I have sadly seen on a consistent basis that the "american church" does well is to attack the worship styles and or beliefs that they do not approve of. The final word on these matters has, does, and always will rest with God. Go to His word, prayerfully read and consider what you find inside, then go and do it. In a nation sadly in need of examples, far too many of us "american christians" are far too busy attaking each other over tiny details and the main message is getting missed. How Satan must laugh. We, as a body of believers, need more than anything else to show our own country the love of Jesus Christ. Why did crowds follow Jesus. More than the miracles, more than the times. I believe they followed him because he was REAL to them. Jesus tore down the traditional salvation by works thinking of the pharasees. He met people where they were. Plain and simple. He loved and accepted, just as they were. Though he did not condone whatever sin they were living in, he made the human connection. THAT is what the "american church" is lacking. Not where you rest your hind parts during service or wether or not they serve coffee after service. Our attention is being cleverly diverted. And our country suffers. Brian |
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4 | How to "win the world" ? | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 105871 | ||
Brian The branch of this thread you responded to, was discussing discipleship within the church. Christianity once a powerful influence in many nations is declining and the question was why? Is it because the message is outdated? or the music isn't right? or we aren't doing enough evangelism, or that Christianity just doesn't seem to work? The discussion came to the point of discipleship and that is where I made my comments that you responded to. While I could probably attempt to speak about the church of the world I think I would be better able to speak to what I have directly observed here in the States. Your right, in the example I gave, the men did need to find another church. But that wasn't why I used his example. I gave that example as a way to show what is taking place in many churches around this nation and I believe also around the world. The church has placed it’s focus not on making disciples but building numbers. Churches will go to most any measure to draw more people in but in most cases they do not have resources in place to disciple them once they do come in. Your last paragraph is actually a confirmation of what I was saying. EdB |
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5 | How to "win the world" ? | Bible general Archive 2 | Mommapbs | 105885 | ||
EdB, you wrote, "Churches will go to most any measure to draw more people in but in most cases they do not have resources in place to disciple them once they do come in." AMEN! Presently, my church has grown in NUMBER by about 20 percent. We have outgrown our present facility and are building a HUGE "worship center" nearby to accomodate this "growth." But as you note, there is little or no vehicle in place to disciple all that enter in. We have "small groups" BUT, these tightly controlled, they are "arranged" and "programmed" just like our morning "worship" services. As you can see, I'm a tad bit discouraged. . . but there is hope, for the top item on our prayer list for the body is DISCIPLESHIP! Everything starts with prayer; so I know I am in the right place there! mommapbs |
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6 | How to "win the world" ? | Bible general Archive 2 | EdB | 105886 | ||
mommapbs When it is all said and done this is the most important thing of all. "but there is hope, for the top item on our prayer list for the body is DISCIPLESHIP!" Prayer works and prayer is the answer! EdB |
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