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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | purpose driven? | NT general Archive 1 | DocTrinsograce | 142672 | ||
Hi, brother Tim... I'll throw my two cents in, if you don't mind. I've scanned the book at Wal-Mart. I guess I might have had some bias against it right there. Books on theology sold at Wal-Mart are generally the first indication that you aren't looking at something terribly deep. However, as I looked through it, I couldn't help but notice the emphasis on self. In scripture, we see great emphasis on God. Over and over those whose eyes are drawn to God change their behavior as a consequence, without respect for the results. Job and his visitation; Abraham and his calling; Moses and the burning bush; Isaiah with his experience in the temple; Daniel and his visions; Habakkuk and his theophany; the disciples and their calling; the woman at the well; Zacchaeus; Paul; many people through Acts; etc. etc. No one comes to God for what they will get out of it. In fact, if a man's attitude is like that, his search will be in vain. Instead, we fall on our knees before God because He is God, and when we see Him, we see ourselves more clearly. What else is there to do but fall upon our knees, hang our head and cry, "Have mercy, Lord?" Trying to give someone a set of rules in order to find fulfillment just doesn't work. The reason it doesn't work is because you can't harness the flesh as an engine to bring someone to a more spiritual life -- at least, spiritual in the sense that the scripture means it. Note how in Ephesians that Paul brings us face to face with a Holy God. After three chapters where he can barely contain himself through the experience ONLY THEN does he begin to talk about the practical actions that grow OUT of this knowledge of God. He does the same in Romans and other epistles. I used to breeze over the theology stuff so I could get down to brass tacks. I'd say, "Okay... Okay... but what am I supposed to DO." This misses the boat. The focus on me and on my doing just blows it all out of the water. I know there is popular theology out there, but the truth always offends the masses. The very fact that a philosophy or teaching becomes popular means that it has found a way to coexist contentedly with the flesh and falleness of the many who are on the broad way. 2 Timothy 4:3 is the way to sell books and seminars. The stumblingblocks, foolishness, and light of 1 Corinthians 1:23 and John 3:19 will not often be sold in Wal-Mart I'm afraid. I apologize if I've gotten out of context here. I confess to not having read what everyone has posted on Mr. Warren and his writings. In Him, Doc |
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2 | purpose driven? | NT general Archive 1 | srbaegon | 142680 | ||
Hello Doc, As I've stated before, my views are mixed. I agree with Tim's point in that we are to be intentionally involved and working in regards to the kingdom of heaven within the local church. That is something the modern church has lost sight of. We are a community of saints and should be acting like it. On the other hand, I disagree with Bro. Warren's methodology. I noticed some disagreeing with your statement of coexisting "contentedly with the flesh and falleness of the many who are on the broad way." I think that's an astute observation. New programs and ideas remove the shame of sin and the cross in order to present an upbeat gospel. Not that there is anything incorrect in what is being stated--it's simply incomplete. And we cannot be saved if we do not first appreciate the sinfulness and fallenness of our natural condition. One cannot be saved if he does not know he's lost. Steve |
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3 | purpose driven? | NT general Archive 1 | EdB | 142686 | ||
Steve Amen! I really agree with this statement, "we cannot be saved if we do not first appreciate the sinfulness and falleness of our natural condition. One cannot be saved if he does not know he's lost." Church today convinces people that they are dying and going to hell, but never attempts to convince them of their sins. People hear they are going to hell and don't like that idea so they do as they’re told and believe in Jesus to keep them out of hell. Problem solved! WRONG! They aren't saved they just didn't want to go to hell. Because they don't even know what they’re saved from, they are just "saved from hell" Unless we see the need for salvation (other than keeping us out of hell) there can be no meaningful change in our lives. We can become "churched" learning what to say and not to say. We can put on our church face and act as we see others in the church act. We can even be fruit producers as we see other produce fruit. But there is still a void, something is missing, that is our own personal confrontation with our sins. That is a dirty, shameful, degrading, and even cruel process and it is place people never want to visit yet that is exactly where we must go to find Christ. Our society has taught us well how to avoid ever making a wrong turn to go to the place, in fact society has done it best to make us believe that place doesn't exist. We have many names for the cover up, self esteem, self confidence, self worth. We proudly proclaim that we like ourselves, and why shouldn't we? We never compare ourselves to any standard higher than ourselves. Even though we know there is something missing we attempt to cover it with in many ways; good works, emotional highs, satisfying perceived needs, materialism, occasionally entering the ministry. We call that process finding “our purpose.” The Word of God and the leading of Holy Spirit is needed to take us to the place of self examination, but unless the church teaches us by showing us a higher standard to compare ourselves and of our need to confront our sins we never start the journey. Unless you know you sin how can you ever seek forgiveness for it? EdB |
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