Results 1 - 14 of 14
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are christians included in the 144,000 ? | Bible general Archive 1 | saxsmith | 74693 | ||
How can christians be sure that the 144,000 is inclusive of all that are saved? | ||||||
2 | Are christians included in the 144,000 ? | Bible general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 74694 | ||
Hello saxsmith, and welcome to the forum. The way I see it none of the 144,000 are Christians these are all Jews and they aren’t saved at the point in time when they are sealed. These are God’s people the true olive branch ready to be grafted back in. Ezekiel 20:35-37 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face. [36] Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God. [37] And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant: Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Luke 21:24 B and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? CDBJ |
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3 | Are the 144,000 Jewish Christians? | Bible general Archive 1 | Searcher56 | 74760 | ||
CDBJ. Are the 144,000 Jewish Christians? | ||||||
4 | Are the 144,000 Jewish Christians? | Bible general Archive 1 | disciplerami | 74771 | ||
Greetings, Here is my take on the 144,000. The number is not literal, it is symbolic for all the saved from both sides of the cross. 144 comes from squaring the number 12, the number for God's organized religion (on a lot more on this, see Ray Summer's "Worthy is the Lamb", a commentary on the book of Revelation. 1,000 comes from 10 (number for completeness) to the third power: 10x10x10. It is my view that the number cannot be taken literally, or we also must conclude that they are also only men who have not been with women (Revelation 14). Therefore the Jewish references are allegory for the true Israel of God (see Paul's message in Galatians 4 and Romans 2:28-29). The 144,000 refers to all the saved, on both sides of the cross. |
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5 | Are the 144,000 Jewish Christians? | Bible general Archive 1 | Searcher56 | 74774 | ||
What do you say about ... the Bible that mentions specific tribes, of Israel ... 12,000 each. Also, why is this text placed here? Dosn't take place during the tribulation? It only can be Israel ... during the tribulation, |
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6 | Are the 144,000 Jewish Christians? | Bible general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 74798 | ||
Hello Searcher, in my previous post I stated my position on the 144,000 that were sealed. “The way I see it none of the 144,000 are Christians these are all Jews and they aren’t saved at the point in time when they are sealed. These are God’s people the true olive branch ready to be grafted back in." The reason they were sealed is to escape the wrath of God that will come as soon as the sealing is over, i.e. they are under God’s divine protection. Rev. 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. I don’t see the wrath of God starting until Rev. 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. The first sign of God’s wrath and destruction, as he has promised, won’t be water, as it was in Noah’s day, but fire. 2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. The first expression God’s wrath starts in Rev. 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. Getting back directly to your question, the answer is no, because if they would have been Christians they would have been removed at the rapture with all believers. The proof is found in 1 Thes. 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, The us, in hath not appointed us, includes all believers, barring none. I could go on and on about this if you would like but that pretty much answers your question from my viewpoint. Have a nice day, CDBJ |
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7 | Is the first resurrection, the rapture? | Bible general Archive 1 | Searcher56 | 74947 | ||
CDBJ, I have some questions. When will the first resurrection take place (Rev 20:5-6)? Do you see the rapture and the resurrections as different events? ... If so, will people be saved during the tribulation, or will those who reign with Christ (Rev 20:4) be unsaved? Also, will people be saved during the 1,000 year reign of Christ? .... If, not why will Satan have to decieve the nations (Rev 20:4) ... since they are not Christians? I contend that those that reign with Christ are those who had "not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand" ... the second resurrection is for the other believers. The 144,000 who were sealed (Rev 7:4-8) came out of the great tribulation (vs 14). There is a play on words, since this is after the sixth seal (Rev 6). Searcher |
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8 | Is the first resurrection, the rapture? | Bible general Archive 1 | sisterkath | 75096 | ||
Hi CDBJ, The word "Rapture" does not accur in the inspired Scriptures. But I know you are refering to 1 Thessalonians 4:17, where it states; Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord. Verse 15 says, these are the faithful ones "who are left until the coming of the Lord," [they are still living at the time of Christ's coming]. They will instantly be "caught up," in the twinkling of an eye, to be with the Lord. (1 Cor. 15:51,52) The Oxford Bible Commentary says, "Here we have a futurist myth derived partly from Israelite tradition but given a new slant in the context of the belief in Christ's death and resurrection which saw him exalted to the right hand of God (Acts 2:33; Rom 8:34). The myth deals with Christ's descent (based on his preceding ascent to God) which presupposes a first-century cosmology in which heaven is located above the earth. The cry of command is probably to be taken as uttered by Jesus and as addressed to the dead that they should rise. A trumpet also appears in connection with resurrection and the end time at 1 Cor 15:52 (also see Isa 27:13; Zeph 1:14-16). While most myths relate to past events, helping a particular group to gain access to its formative, primordial past, a myth of the future such as this is rather different. It serves to stress the goal rather than the basis of a social order and thus has a presciptive rather than a proscriptive function. Paul's Thessalonian converts would have been reassured by the details of this narrative that another order of reality existed, and that the difficult events of their present and recent past were occurring within a context controlled by heavenly forces who would ultimately restore their fortunes beyond their wildest dreams. Yet although the creation of hope in a future vindication forms part of such mythopoiesis, it is not the end of the story. For a futurist myth such as this also creates an imaginary experience in the present of that which is to come, and thus reinforces the social identity of its addressees at a time when they are exposed to external threat. |
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9 | Is the first resurrection, the rapture? | Bible general Archive 1 | justme | 75145 | ||
sisterkath: What version of the Bible do you use? Inoticed you used NWT for scripture when used. Thanks for your response. justme |
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10 | Is the first resurrection, the rapture? | Bible general Archive 1 | sisterkath | 75174 | ||
Rapture is not meantioned in the Bible. I use a number of Bibles, but for my personal use, I use The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. |
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11 | Is the first resurrection, the rapture? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 75177 | ||
So are you one of Jehovah's Witnesses, then? --Joe! |
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12 | Is the first resurrection, the rapture? | Bible general Archive 1 | sisterkath | 75180 | ||
I am not a baptized Jehovah Witness. But I do study with a sister. Why do you want to know so much about me, if I might ask? | ||||||
13 | Is the first resurrection, the rapture? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 75226 | ||
So much about you? I only asked one question! :) Just so that you keep your mind open to evaluate whether the sister you are studying with has it right or not, I would like to point you to a couple of links: http://www.watchman.org/jw/index.htm http://www.webshowplace.com/question/65quest.html http://www.equip.org/free/DJ540.htm http://www.equip.org/free/DJ570-1.htm http://www.equip.org/free/DJ570-2.htm --Joe! |
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14 | Is the first resurrection, the rapture? | Bible general Archive 1 | sisterkath | 75293 | ||
Thank-You Joe. I'll keep them sites, in my files, just incase I need to refer to them. | ||||||