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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 68847 | ||
Dear Ed, You stated: "As to my statement, "I think anything that impairs even slightly the traits the Bible tells us to seek, hinders our relationship with God and yes this is a sin." I will stand by it! That is not to say this happens every time you or anyone ingests some form of alcohol. But the danger is there and it is almost like playing with fire, so in my thinking why do it." First of all, I am not playing with fire. I am enjoying my christian liberty as I see it. I understand that you see it differently, but I am accountable to my Master alone (as are all of us). Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. I believe that each and every day The Holy Spirit is working within me, transforming my mind by applying the truth of God's law to it. Therefore I can say that I know what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God for me. It is contained within law which is written on my heart. Jer 31:33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. I realize that your main objective was to show that not all wine mentioned in Scripture is alcoholic, but what would be the point of doing so if not to eliminate any verse that tended to support the view of the "sippin' saints" :-) "Since leavened carried such a meaning and was banned from nearly all Jewish religious celebrations, I think alcoholic wine would have carried the same prohibition. Therefore the cup of the fruit of the vine used by Jesus at Passover was most probably unfermented juice." Sorry Ed, speculation is not evidence. Now if you had proof texts that we could study.... "If you have ever observed fermentation process you will see it a bubbling churning chaotic turmoil that emits foul odors and gases. I believe this is why God chose leaven to be symbolic of sin. When sin enters a life that life become a churning, chaotic turmoil. That emits bad things into the life of all around them". Have you ever been to a sausage factory? Scripture Ed, Scripture. It is not my intent to persuade anyone to act against their conscience. At the same time, I must not allow what I believe to be lawful to be called sin! Rom 14:16 Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil; Brother Ed I have enjoyed our discussion and look forward to talking to you again. Your Brother, John |
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2 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | EdB | 68925 | ||
John Of course you know as well as I not everything is written in the Bible, some things we have to use deductive reasoning to come to a conclusion about. Show me the fault in the my reasoning. If all leaven is removed from the house before Passover and alcohol wine contains leaven can we not use deductive reasoning and come to the conclusion there would be not alcoholic wine in the house. Yes I have been to a sausage factory, and your point is? Tell be once more why your defending the intake of the excrement of sugar eating bacteria. Better yet tell me why your defending it on a Christian forum? Yes I know about liberty and all, but defending something that has been instrumental in destroying so many lives seems unwise to me. Tim has proved over and over the Greek word for wine is also used to talk about the juice of grapes and since it can mean both alcoholic wine and non alcoholic wine and since we know the reputation of alcohol is it not safe once again to use deductive reasoning and say when wine is being talked about in a negative or medicinal light it is referring to alcoholic wine. In the same sense when the Bible talks about wine in a positive sense is it not fair to once again deduce it is talking about non alcoholic wine. Do I think an occasional drink will condemn someone to hell? No. But I also know what started the drunkard that is condemned to hell was one drink, then another, then another, then another, then another. One last question would the world be a better place if everyone drank alcohol or would it be better if no one drank at all? 17,000 people died last year because of drunk drivers. EdB |
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3 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | charis | 68938 | ||
Dear Ed, Greetings to you in the name of Jesus! My friend, you are becoming a little 'hot around the collar' on this one. :-) All of the evils you are speaking of are 'drunkenness,' not the small intake of alcoholic beverages. Please... no one, as yet, has brought forth proof that all intake of alcoholic beverages is forbidden in the Bible. All agree that alcohol has the potential to lead one to drunkenness. In a similar manner, that PC you sit in front of can bring ruin and distruction to many a saint. But this issue is not Biblically cut-and-dry "Thou shalt not..." We are called to self-control... "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." Galatians 5:22,23 NASB. A faithful Christian can be at peace with following their own thoughts on this issue without judging another. Peace and joy in Christ Jesus, charis |
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4 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | Hank | 68940 | ||
My prized friend, Charis: While I readily and fervently agree with you in your statement that we (Christians) are called to self-control, I would at the same time observe that in my 67 years I have learned along the way that one of the prime effects of alcohol on the brain cells is the loss, to a greater or lesser degree depending upon the amount of alcohol present in the bloodstream, of inhibition, self-control and sound judgment. Motor control of the central nervous system is measurably diminished by relatively small quantities of alcohol, especially when the alcohol is injested on an empty stomach. I concede that one is hard pressed to find a "Thou shalt not" for the use of alcohol, but the abuse of it (drunkenness) is clearly proscribed by Scripture. But then, there is, to my knowledge, no Holy Writ that forbids one to ride his Harley-Davidson at 100 miles an hour on a mountain pass in a blizzard, either. In view of my experiences -- e.g., losing a son to a drunk driver, ministering to Christian alcoholics, and on one mad occasion in my youth, almost killing a passenger and myself while I was driving as drunk as a fiddler -- I feel it incumbent upon me, in order to avoid the risk of diminishing my Christian witness to others or perchance of being a stumbling block to them instead of a positive ambassador for Christ, to refrain from any use of alcohol. I am unable to see how I could justify using it. I can see no real benefits to be derived by using it, but I can see potential dangers aplenty. The negatives of using alcohol, in my experience, outweigh the positives -- if in fact there are any real positives. Having said that, I'll assure you I'm not in cahoots with the Carrie Nation crowd and thus pledge not to sail to Japan, hatchet in hand, and proceed to chop your wine cellar to shreds! As I said to John Reformed, so say I to you: To drink or not to drink, that is the question for you, and your choice is your business. I do, however, suggest that we all of us, having had our say, close shop on this thread and thereby end it. I trust we can all agree that this is a wise course to take before this thing becomes any more explosive than it already has. --Hank | ||||||
5 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | charis | 68942 | ||
Dearest Hank, Greetings in the name of Jesus! I, too, have seen what the loss of self-control can do to a faithful man. I do not promote the use of alcoholic beverage. I merely state that it is possible to safely drive a BMW Scarver 650CS (I'm not sure they sell this mototcycle in the States) staying away from adverse conditions and keeping the speed down to a responsible level. Now those afraid of motorcycles want to outlaw them! They can't see a reason in the world to allow two-wheeled vehicles on the road at all. Well, I can! :-) I agree that this thread is dead and becoming acrid. I will refrain from mentioning my opinion on this issue any more. Peace and joy in Christ Jesus, charis |
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