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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 68765 | ||
"Since you admit you enjoy the side effects of alcohol, then aside from the legal aspects then you must agree with the use of Marijuana especially known for it's pleasant effects." Get real Ed. That is an absurd conclusion. If I was a runner who enjoyed the euphoria that accompamies running, it would not mean I condoned smoking pot. Note: the effects of one or even two beers does not elicit anything close to euphoria in most people, generally speaking. #Your saying you see nothing wrong with anything that just slightly impairs sound judgement and reasoning." I never said that. It is only your assumption based on your opinion. "Then my question is how much is two much? When you have a slight buss? When you see two of everything, When all your inhibitions are gone and you act in total liberty? Or maybe when your brain is so numb you really don't know what your doing?" Ed, to tell you the truth, one beer is more than enough for me 99 per cent of he time. So, I can't tell you what my personal limit is, but I can tell you that I have not experienced any of the effects that you mentioned. What you are describing is drunkeness which is a sin. "I think anything that impairs even slightly the traits the bible tells us to seek, hinders our relationship with God and YES it is a sin." It is a sujective topic and many godly christians would likely disagree with your narrow view of moderate drinking. "As for taste I can give you non alcoholic red wine that in a blind test you could not tell from the alcoholic wine unless it was compared to alcoholic wine that is over 10 percent alcohol or better. Even then the taste would be the same the reactions of the body in swallowing it would be different." "Non alcoholic beer is as good as many regular. I came from a state that required 3.2 under certain conditions and may times we would switch it with the regular 6 percent plus and no body knew the difference." After 20 years of abstinence I came to believe in the lawful use of alcohol through Scripture and prayer. After explaining my conviction to my wife, I asked her if she would be upset if I had a beer. She had reservations but trusted my judgement because she knows my devotion to Christ. That was 2 years ago and ny wife has no complaints, neither have I experienced any spiritual or physical problems as a result of my decision. What more can I say. I regret that I found it necessary to respond on a personal level to a subject that should be treated on by Scripture alone, but your accusation that I "must agree with the use of Marijuana" forced me to defend myself rater than doctrine. No hard feelings though brother Ed, I know you spoke from a loving heart and only meant to correct what you see as a dangerous practice. I'm sorry Ed but I find pleasure in alcoholic wine and beer and am convinced that it is gift from God. God Bless You, John |
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2 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | EdB | 68822 | ||
John Okay I will admit my first two paragraphs were more or less cheap shots but I was in a hurry and I'm sorry you deserve better. As to my statement, "I think anything that impairs even slightly the traits the Bible tells us to seek, hinders our relationship with God and yes this is a sin." I will stand by it! That is not to say this happens every time you or anyone ingests some form of alcohol. But the danger is there and it is almost like playing with fire, so in my thinking why do it. As we discussed alcohol has little or no taste, while I will admit it does stimulate others senses it adds very little to the actual experience of drinking fruit juice. Wineries have realized there is a viable market for their product without the alcohol and are producing some rather interesting and exciting non alcoholic wines. John I never meant to take this discussion to a personal level and I hope it was not me that initiated it in that direction. I simple got involved in it for two reasons. First to dispel the falsehood that all wine mentioned in the Bible was alcoholic, that the people of Biblical time used fermentation as a way of preserving the juice. Fermentation as done in biblical time would only allow the result to be kept a short time longer than without fermentation. Certainly not indefinitely as we are accustom to keeping wine today. The commonest form of preservation in Biblical time was to crush and then sun dry the result, forming a paste or even sheet of dried juice similar to our fruit roll ups today. This was then reconstituted and used, but just like our products today it was not as desirable as fresh squeezed. This is the probable explanation of John 2:10 At social occasions the common practice was to serve fresh squeezed and then if more was needed turn to the reconstituted wine. Here Jesus created juice so superior that the headwaiter remarks why would you keep this for last. Secondly I got involved in the thread to bring to light the fact fermentation is exactly the same process as “leavening “ I think everyone will agree leaven or yeast or leavening when used in the Bible was in reference to sin. It was so symbolic of sin that the children of Israel were told to eat unleavened bread for Passover and to this day practicing Jews remove all leaven from their home before celebrating Passover. In fact so complete is this removal even the corners of the house are symbolically dusted with a feather and small golden pan to get ‘all’ the crumbs. It is a great honor for a Jewish child to be given the honor to hunt for these crumbs and sweep them up. Since Easter and Passover coincide many believe this Jewish custom of hunting for leaven crumbs turned into Easter’s egg hunt. Since leavened carried such a meaning and was banned from nearly all Jewish religious celebrations, I think alcoholic wine would have carried the same prohibition. Therefore the cup of the fruit of the vine used by Jesus at Passover was most probably unfermented juice. Fermentation itself is sort of turnoff. Yeast bacteria eat sugar and they then excrete alcohol as their waste product. So the alcohol so many wish to defend and to consume is really the waste of bacteria. Sounds tasty!!! Glad we never cultivated (since the taste for alcohol has to be cultivated) a taste for cow pies! If you have ever observed fermentation process you will see it a bubbling churning chaotic turmoil that emits foul odors and gases. I believe this is why God chose leaven to be symbolic of sin. When sin enters a life that life become a churning, chaotic turmoil. That emits bad things into the life of all around them. John again I never meant this be taken to a personal level and I apologize for the cheap shot. EdB |
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3 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 68825 | ||
Dear Ed, Thanks for your kind reply. I do consider you my brother and have a warm affection for you. I know you meant nothing but good. I have to go to work, but will answer you later in more detail if the Lord permits. God Bless, John |
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