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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | retxar | 68657 | ||
John, Thanks for answering my question bro. I guess I was looking for a verse that spoke of the actual consumption of alcohol being a good thing, rather than what the wine was used as to represent as being a good thing tho. Wine, after all, represents the blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, so of coarse that is a good thing! I was not clear on what I meant, so thank you for the verses you provided. Let me comment on the Luke reference you gave: You said: “Evidently Jesus did not condemn wine, for He said: Luke 5:39 "And no one, after drinking old wine wishes for new; for he says, 'The old is good enough.” This has nothing to do with whether Jesus approved of did not approve of the consumption of alcoholic wine. Just because He used it in His illustration does not say anything in anyway concerning the matter. He used the illustration of old wine/new wine to drive home the point of the parables He was teaching. The message He was preaching was that a new work in the Spirit (new wine) would not work in the hearts of those who were hung up on the traditions of men (old wine shins). The old wine represented the traditions they were hung up on. The new wine represented the new work that Jesus wanted to do in their life. Jesus said “The old is good enough” to tell us that some will chose the traditions of men over the new work of the Spirit that God wants to do in their heart, because they automatically assume (falsely) that the old has to be better. The church even has a song they sing that confirms what Jesus was talking about. It’s called, “Give me that old time religion, it’s good enough for me!” So, unless you have a better take on this passage than me, it has nothing to do with Jesus’s opinion of the evils/virtues of alcohol, only the hearts of men. I guess the only other question I had to ask was the question Tim has already asked you concerning the biblical definition of “not much” wine. How could anyone possible know where that line is unless they had crossed it at least once? I will review you response to Tim more thoroughly, but a, “well he just knows”, does not seem quite right to me. This seems like it might work for an experienced person who has consumed “not much” wine for a while, but I don’t see how this is going to work with those who want to drink and are just starting out. Seems to me he would have to do quite a bit of drinking before he got the hang of it. And to avoid sin he would have to work his way up to that line, instead of working his way back, as is usually the case. As I said, I will study your response further. Anyway, John, thanks for bringing Rom14 into this discussion. Where I live, there is no way around the fact that alcohol consumption by a Christian will offend both believer and non-believer alike, so Rom14 has to be a consideration to anyone, regardless which side of the issue one takes. As I have already said, I will not be dogmatic about this, and will not judge you or anyone else concerning this. I have spoken here as I would plead to those in my own family concerning the issue of alcohol consumption, so forgive me if I have seemed judgmental in anyway. This issue, as you said, is indeed one of individual choice, I just see no good that can come out of consuming alcohol, and see much harm that can, and does, result from it. The issue of our obligation as kings and priest by Jesus is something I would like you to consider, as this has not been addressed by you or anyone else.. “Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.” (Rom 14:19) retxar |
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2 | making wine.Did Jesus make a mistake. | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 68709 | ||
Dear retxar, You wrote "So, unless you have a better take on this passage than me, it has nothing to do with Jesus’s opinion of the evils/virtues of alcohol, only the hearts of men." I agree. Jesus is not condoning or condemning the use of wine in the passage. That in itself should give us reason to reflect on what we believe. Without a solid biblical mandate, we should never teach as God's law the commandments of men. This principle is much more important than the current discussion regarding wine. I am not accusing anyone of doing so on the forum, but this line of thinking has persuaded denominations to treat even a glass of wine as a sin! This attitude leads to even further man-made rules against such things as dancing; smoking; R rated movies, make-up, dress codes, card playing, etc. etc. ad infinitum. Understand, I am not preaching liscense, but liberty. Each christian has the Holy Spirit living within them, and it may be presumed that each day we are offering up our bodys as a living sacrifice to God, and are praying for revelation as we are renewed through the study of His Word. If we are walking after the Spirit we will not obey the lusts of the flesh. Rom 14:14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. God Bless, John |
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